‘NCIS’: Brian Dietzen Talks Writing Ducky Tribute & Shares David McCallum Memories
Q&A
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Brian Dietzen had a tall order when it came to the latest NCIS episode he cowrote with Scott Williams: the tribute to Dr. Donald “Ducky” Mallard and the actor who played him, the late David McCallum. But it’s one the two were more than ready to take on.
“When you lose someone very close, you can fall into just crying and mourning continually, and while we wanted to pay homage to him, we didn’t want that to be it,” Dietzen tells TV Insider ahead of the February 19 episode. “We wanted to celebrate the fun times as well, and we wanted to celebrate the amazing work that this great actor did on our show and also honor the character that he created. And I think both those people, the character and the actor, would love to see us continuing on and honoring him through continuing to do good work.”
The Season 21 premiere ended with Dietzen’s Dr. Jimmy Palmer calling Alden Parker (Gary Cole) to tell him of Ducky’s death. Now, the focus will turn to celebrating him—and solving the case he was working on before he died. Below, Dietzen talks about writing the episode and shares memories with McCallum, going back to their first scene together.
Talk about how you co-writing this episode came about because it is so fitting that you did so.
Brian Dietzen: We had the work stoppage this last year because of the [writers’ and actors] strikes, so we have a 10-episode order this season instead of our normal 22, sometimes 24 episodes. I’ve been cowriting with Scott Williams just about once a year, the last couple years, and so this year, I let my showrunners, David North and Steven Binder, know that I wasn’t going to request a script because we have a wonderful writing staff and I felt like, oh, there’s no need for me to step in there because we only have 10 episodes. Then David passed away, and I think that Scott really wanted to write his farewell episode and he thought it would be fitting if it would be a co-written with me. David and Steve said, that’s super appropriate. We all think that’s a really good thing, and you two obviously work well together, so go off and do your thing. I was really honored to be asked to do so, and I just wanted to make him proud.
What was your approach to this episode? Because you have to balance honoring David, honoring Ducky, but then also the case and the team’s grief.
Yeah, I think it’s really important that this remains an NCIS episode. It cannot just be some series of flashbacks to prior Ducky Mallard scenes. It was really important for us that we still have a case to solve. You’re living in a legacy of this person that you’ve lost, being Ducky, so we decided to craft a case where there would be something that would thematically link the case to the team’s loss, and those two don’t necessarily have to go hand in glove. They don’t have to be related. It’s not as though the case has to be related to Ducky in any way, but thematically speaking, it really should be.
Michael Yarish/CBS
What can you say about any characters returning or the acknowledgement of them and what Ducky meant to them?
What we tried to do with this episode was we tried honor the team that he worked with, and when I say the team, I mean the greater team, not just this team that we have right now that involves Parker, Torres [Wilmer Valderrama], Knight [Katrina Law], McGee [Sean Murray], Palmer, Kasie [Diona Reasonover], and Vance [Rocky Carroll]. The greater team is all of the different teams he’s worked with, many of which involved Gibbs [Mark Harmon], and then of course there’s Tony [Michael Weatherly] and Ziva [Cote de Pablo], and there’s Bishop [Emily Wickersham], Abby [Pauley Perrette], of course, and everyone in between.
And so when we wrote this thing, while it’s certainly not a show that’s just all about clips or anything like that, there are these remembrances of Ducky and we wanted to see him interacting with people that are on our current team and also people that are on our iterations of our team, too. I think we did a pretty good job with that, and I think that people like to see that they’re getting to see their Ducky many years past as well as the more recent.
What moments working with David came to mind while you were writing the episode then filming it?
Oh, about 6,000, if I’m being honest. I was going through, and I was looking up my first scene with him with a tape recorder at the end of Season 1. I was looking at “The Meat Puzzle” in Season 2. I was looking at “Detour,” a Steven Binder classic where we’re being chased through the woods directed by Mario Van Peebles. That was actually a really cool episode to look back on because David, if I look at it now, I thought, oh man, he was 80 years old, 81 years old when we shot that episode. And it’s Jimmy and Ducky running through a wooded forest at night in the snow, and obviously asking an 80-something-year old man to do that for continual night shoots, that’s not okay. So they ended up building a whole forest on our set and made it snow [and] we shot it during the day.
Monty Brinton/CBS
Some of those things hit me and memories hit me. And so as I’m watching all these old shows as we’re writing this new show, I can’t tell you how many just good times that we had together, and I don’t want to try to summarize it in just a couple of quotes here because it’s tough to summarize 20 years of friendship and 20 years of camaraderie and mentorship and great scenes together being shared. But what I will say is that the thing that I’ll always remember and that hit me so hard when I was watching all of these things is just what a terrific worker David McCallum was continually. He always showed up prepared. He knew his things. He did every scene with the absolute best of his ability. And that’s something that I watched him do for years and tried to adopt for myself as well. So yeah, it’s been an honor.
How do you remember Jimmy and Ducky’s relationship?
I see it as a partnership and somewhat of a mentorship. I remember there’s one point at which some writer on our staff years ago—I can’t remember who the person was exactly—started wanting to get into this, oh, he’s like a son to Ducky, this is like his father figure, and had some lines about that. And David said, “Oh, no, no, no, no, no. They’re partners, and they’re work colleagues. The second we start getting into a hierarchy of, he’s my son or I’m his father sort of thing, there’ll be a power dynamic that I don’t want to explore too much. I want it to be that Jimmy can speak his mind when he needs to and so can Ducky.” And that’s the way he treated it. It was really about, we’re in this thing together.
I think that was what was really, really great about those two characters is that they both lifted each other up. Jimmy had this reverence for Ducky that was so easy to see, and Ducky, the moment that he found out that Jimmy had passed his medical examiner’s license test, he was a doctor, the first thing he says is “Dr. Palmer” with all this pride in his voice. And I’d be lying if I didn’t say it made me teary to think about because David treated me that way as well in my personal life. He was very kind, very proud when I started to take over more of the load of the M.E. at NCIS. He’d call me and say, “I love the scene you did. I love this and that. I’m so proud you’re doing this in my stead.” And so yeah, art imitated life here and there.
What do you recall about your first and last scenes together?
Our first scene together, I remember I booked this episode. It was a one day guest star, and so I was just going to go and do one scene for NCIS, and it was a spinoff of JAG, and I think I’d seen one episode of it at the time, and I’ll be honest, I didn’t know who David McCallum was, and I’d never seen The Man from U.N.C.L.E.. At the time, I’d never seen The Great Escape. So I was pretty uncultured. I walked in, and I did this scene with this really terrific actor. That’s all I knew. I just knew, well, he’s really good, he’s really fantastic. And so I went home and I looked up, who is this guy? What has he been in before? Only to find out that he was like one of film and TV’s Beatles from the 1960s. [Laughs] He was a living legend, and that was pretty great.
And what was wonderful is that we got along well and the producer at the time, Don Bellisario, saw, oh, those two work really well together. Let’s have Brian come back next week and then the next week and then the next week. It’s because the two of us worked well together and we worked well on our scenes that I got to keep working. So that was really, really wonderful.
I’ll say one of the last scenes that I remember doing with David in person—because over the last few years, David was shooting most of his scenes in New York and we would have him on a screen or an iPad or something like that—was Ducky and Jimmy at a diner just eating together. There was no case that we were talking about, there was no red herring or anything like that. It was just two guys sitting there talking about a girl that Jimmy likes, and it was a friend listening to another friend over a sandwich. I thought, looking back on it, that’s really wonderful. Because we did that so often within our autopsy scenes where the scene is about this body before us and all of the evidence that we have to deliver to the rest of the team, but the dialogue could be about just about anything. We could be joking about things. He could be going off on some diatribe about something that was seemingly unrelated but it really came through historically in this situation. And so yeah, it was a cool scene to go back and reflect on.
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