Was it Rape? Exec Producer Brad Bell Weighs in on ‘The Bold and the Beautiful’s Sex Controversy
The history of daytime drama is littered with rapists who’ve been turned into heartthrobs by writers eager to cash in on a star’s sex appeal. That was the case with Luke Spencer on General Hospital, Jack Deveraux on Days of Our Lives, Todd Manning on One Life to Live…and the list goes on and on. Has it happened yet again, this time on The Bold and the Beautiful?
Last fall, the CBS soap aired an episode in which callous womanizer Thomas Forrester (Pierson Fodé) had sex with his ex-girlfriend Caroline Spencer (Linsey Godfrey), who was seriously impaired by alcohol and (unbeknownst to Thomas) antianxiety medication. The next morning, Caroline was horrified when she realized what had taken place and screamed at Thomas not to touch her, which seemed to suggest that she felt raped.
But executive producer-head writer Bradley Bell has taken a 180-degree turn with Thomas, who is no longer an indiscriminate sex pig and is now downright saintly. What’s more, he’s become the victim in this scenario, since the one-nighter with Caroline resulted in a baby—news that was kept from him until only recently.
Did the show start off with a story of non-consensual sex, then change course in an attempt to turn Thomas into a romantic hero? Or was this always the plan? We spoke with Bell and asked him to clarify his intentions.
There are viewers who consider what Thomas did to be sexual assault, while others cut him slack. Some actually blame Caroline for mixing booze and drugs irresponsibly. Still others see this as a “no-fault” scenario. Why be so fuzzy about sexual consent, which is such an important and timely issue?
I don’t think it’s fuzzy. We were careful to write it so that the audience knew Caroline had taken a pill and was a bit out of it, but Thomas did not know about that pill. Caroline was kissing him back. It was very much a give and take. Thomas thought the sex with Caroline was completely consensual and beautiful and that it was the culmination of their love for one another. He didn’t know what the audience knew. He was shocked the next morning when she woke up to have this negative reaction.
But here’s the problem: The viewers and Thomas could clearly see Caroline was wasted and he also knew she was emotionally devastated after her bust-up with his brother, Ridge [Thorsten Kaye]. He didn’t need to know about the pill. He and Caroline had been drinking together and she could barely keep her eyes open. Her speech was not the speech of a fully aware person. And while Thomas may have been drunk as well, he wasn’t so drunk that he could not see her condition. He’d been lusting after Caroline and it really felt like he saw an opening, so to speak, and went for it.
Again, Thomas was under the clear perception that the sex was consensual. He is not the type of character who would do something like this. I don’t think it was fuzzy.
Did you craft this story so that it could go either way?
What do you mean by “go either way”?
Did you purposely create a scenario that let you to keep your options open—one that would allow you to either hold Thomas responsible for a sex crime or let him off the hook if you needed to keep the character around?
I certainly left it up to interpretation. Unlike other soap plots in the past where it was plain to see that a person has been violated, this was left up to the interpretation of the characters and the viewer.
You are the most socially conscious producer in daytime so you get how soaps can be important and enlightening. Why would you leave sexual consent “up to interpretation”? And let’s not forget that, when the sex took place, Thomas was being written and portrayed as an overt predator who had already caught hell for having sex with a Forrester intern. Do you see why there is confusion here and why some people see it as rape?
I think Thomas was reckless in [Fodé’s] early days on the show and what really made the shift in the character was the birth of his child. Thomas felt a real connection to little Douglas, and had great feelings of love for him. He didn’t quite understand what was happening—that Douglas was, in fact, his son—but once he started to feel that connection, he started to see that there was more to life. Thomas wasn’t happy with the way he was living. But I can certainly see how people could be very upset with Thomas and blame him for what happened. But, again, we were careful to keep him unaware. His perceptions were dim. Her perceptions were dim.
Despite Caroline’s initial reaction of horror, she has subsequently said that what happened wasn’t a sexual violation. But just because the writers put those words into her mouth doesn’t make them true. Many women choose not to report a rape, or go into denial about what really happened. Some fear not being believed or fear public vilification. The Bill Cosby case has certainly brought that to light.
There were some very unique circumstances that led up to that evening with Thomas and Caroline. The next morning, she was horrified and upset on many levels—especially that Thomas is Ridge’s son. That added to her distress. Caroline felt violated, and in many ways she was, but it was never Thomas’s intent.
So we should just forget about how she felt the morning after?
Caroline impulsively took a pill—one she hadn’t taken before and hasn’t taken since—but she didn’t immediately remember that when she woke up the next morning. At first she was blaming Thomas completely, because his story didn’t seem to make sense, but as she began putting the pieces together as the drug wore off and her mind became more clear, she was able to lessen her blame and take on a bit more of her own participation in what happened.
Well, let’s put it this way: If your daughter was impaired by alcohol and meds and unable to make a clear decision about whether or not to have sex with a guy and then that guy made the choice for her, would you be OK with that?
No, of course not.
B&B takes place in California, which now has a “yes means yes” law that defines sexual consent and instructs colleges how to handle rape accusations. Under this law, the lack of resistance does not mean consent, and the law also says consent cannot be given if someone is incapacitated by alcohol or drugs. Granted, Forrester Creations isn’t college, but if it were, a judge and jury might disagree strongly with Thomas’ “perception” and send his ass to the slammer.
Perhaps but, again, Thomas was under the clear perception it was consensual. That doesn’t make it right. Thomas was not okay with it. No one was okay with it. It was a terrible and unfortunate night.
There’s much talk on B&B right now about avoiding a scandal that could damage Forrester Creations if the baby’s true parentage were to be revealed in the press. Wouldn’t it be far more damaging if it became known that this baby is the result of rape? This could actually be a powerful story.
You are completely accurate on that. Any business scandal would pale in comparison to some kind of sexual misconduct or criminal offense. But that’s not the story we’re choosing to tell here.
Well, thanks for your willingness to discuss this. One has to ask these questions because daytime drama has a habit of pretending rape ain’t rape. And it wouldn’t be the first time it happened on a Bell show. The Young and the Restless did it with Malcolm [Shemar Moore] and Drucilla [Victoria Rowell], as well as with Paul [Doug Davidson] and Christine [Lauralee Bell].
When we do take on that issue on B&B, we will do it thoroughly and respectfully. We will treat it as the incredibly serious offense that it is.
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Thank you Michael for touching on this subject.
If they wanted us to believe it was consensual they should have filmed the scene differently. Caroline had just been dumped by Ridge, it would have been acceptable if she seeked comfort from a friend. And it is a soap, so the friend could be her ex's son. However, we saw Caroline constantly telling Thomas how much she loved Ridge and we saw her starting to lose consciousness right before it faded to black. If a drunk and drugged person starts to lose consciousness, the next thing that happens is that they pass out not have sexual intercourse.
I also have a problem with the writing for Ridge. Even though, he (rightfully) didn't blame Caroline for anything and did the honorable thing and agreed to raise the baby is his own (something most men wouldn't do) they've made him the villain in this story to redeem Thomas. Very disappointing.
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I totally agree with you about Ridge! Everyone is now gunning for him and supposedly Bill and stupid Brooke next! It's ridiculous that Thomas is being set up that fans should feel sorry for this dirt bag? I don't
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Me neither. Thomas is and will always be a sleaze. I dont blame ridge for not wanting thomas near that child and I seriously doubt that douglas is thomas's anyway,
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Ridge is a rapist, so he could never judge. He raped Brooke. He is a jealous a**. Well you can doubt it all you want to. Bell just said the baby is Thomas's. And since he is the boss and he wrote it, then it is true.
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Ridge needs to be gunned for. He deserves all the misery. Ridge brung it on himself.
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He did not rape Brooke
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AGREE 1,000 % the fact that they are allowing it to come across that Thomas didn't know about the pills is Dumb!! Pills or no pills . A guy can see when someone is getting wasted. He knew. he didn't have pills like she did. he had afew glasses of wine,so what. Thats not enough to make a man not know what he is doing. He knew. He could see she was getting wasted,She was closing her eyes alot.on the verge of blackouts. when he kissed her,she at that point thought she was kissing Ridge. I have been in that position when I was 18yrs old. I am now 60 yrs old. But I know how it is when you black out and do not remember anything. He was more clear minded then her. He had no problem remembering the next morning,but to her it was atotal shock. she was ANGRY!! she asked Thomas, how could yOU?? You knew I Loved Ridge. Thomas saw a shot at Caroline while she was incoherent,and he took it. He panicked the next morning when she claimed he should have known better and his excuse he didn't know about the pills,which is Lame. Just because you don't know if someone took some pills before you got there, does not mean you cannot tell ,Hey this person is really getting Sloshed!!!! He could see that. he wanted her, and he thought,it was an easy shot to take. Plus doing that to his father,his father's girlfriend. Thomas betrayed Ridge and people who like Thomas has to realize that a decent son would not make a play for their father's girlfriend. He was Wrong!! if B&B has Thomas pursue this to make it public, then they should have Caroline come forth and tell what Thomas did, and Thomas should go to Jail.
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Yes he did.
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I agree with Callie, no matter how you cut it. Thomas did take advantage of a very painful break up. And it was his father! Also they never did a paternity test. Especially when the Dr. Was a quack. That story will probably come back to haunt Thomas. If Thomas wants custody, or wants his name on the birth Cert. More to come.
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The taking of the pill should have no bearing on this story. Look at the alcohol consumption. You have a 100 pound girl and a 180 pound man, who is going to feel the effects of this the most? How can sex be consensual and beautiful when someone is passed out? You are blaming the victim, shame on you Mr. Bell. "When we do take on that issue on B&B, we will do it thoroughly and respectfully. We will treat it as the incredibly serious offense that it is." You already did take on the issue and you blew it big time. Yet if the same scenario happened to a female relative it would be rape. Double standard. This story line is irresponsible, glorifying rape is wrong.
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Mr. Bell is an idiot. Done with B and B. Glorifying rape is just wrong. Just because Thomas didn't know about the pill is just stupid. The drinking in of itself should have been a clue that Caroline was not able to consent to sex. She weighs around 100 pounds and Thomas weighs around 180; so who is going to feel the effects of alcohol more? She barely gave a kiss before passing out, that is not consent. So Thomas thought it was consensual? How? She was asleep/passed out. Mr. Bell says: " When we do take on that issue on B&B, we will do it thoroughly and respectfully. We will treat it as the incredibly serious offense that it is." You already took on the subject and you blew it big time. You are victim blaming, shame on you and your ignorance of the subject. Mr. Bell is an idiot.
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Taking drugs with alcohol is just stupid on the highest level, but people do it anyway!! What happened to her wasn't a complete violation. I've been violated and I wasn't under drugs or alcohol. Caroline took two pills of someone else's medication, chased it with wine, & followed it with more alcohol on top of that! There's a reason why you don't mix drugs with alcohol, because it just doesn't make you sleepy it can also make you more sexually aggressive. What makes me mad is that she had her heart broken & found the need to take a pill. However, she never needed to before. Also, it's saying it's okay to pop a pill if something doesn't go your way.
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Bye. I'm sure there is a Waltons rerun you'd prefer.
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With the recent uproar over the rape of the unconscious woman by the Stanford student I cannot believe Bill Bell thinks he can get away with this storyline and the viewers will not be outraged. He is sadly out of touch with the culture of rape today! Shame on him and his writers!!
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Obviously it was a mistake to take the pills and drink, no one would argue that. BUT it is no excuse for Thomas to rape her! That's why the California law is that there MUST be consent if someone is drinking etc. The last time I looked the Bold and Beautiful takes place in California, Thomas RAPED her.
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However, look at Quinn & Liam was that rape? Both Liam & Caroline weren't in their right state of minds to say whether or not if they were raped. It's a slippery slope, when it comes to prove a he said &she said situation. Caroline needs to factor in that the drugs she took had an unusual side effect of wiping her memory which often happens. Here is the other side of the coin, if someone used to date or are friends with benefits some of time; they've already given consent from their past actions.
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This storyline has made me so upset from the beginning, Thomas was portrayed as doing things with women in his past that were shady. Now the present; the bet he made to bed Ivy also Caroline, as Bell implied, she was violated but that wasn't Thomas' intent? OMG so that makes it ok? Glad you asked some tough ? And
I feel you set Bell straight that what was filmed did not hold water to how Bell was explaining it.
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thomas,had to remove her clothes to get to the goodies,so dont get me it was consent,as far as i'm concern he rape her.knowing she didnt want him like that.
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Thank you Michael for asking the hard questions viewers have wanted asked.Sadly, Bell's answers perpetuate that it wasn't a violation.It most definitely was & B&B needs to quit whitewashing it.
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Bell is a disgusting POS. So what he is saying that what thomas did was excusable. That is a slap in the face to every woman who has been through this bill cosby anyone. I am done watching his sick show
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Bye.
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I don't need Mr. Bell to explain it to me because I know what I saw, the story I saw Thomas was hitting on Caroline nonstop long before they smashed,
Then she was not only emotionally spent but out of it IMO he took advantage of her impaired state the pill was just another thing she was out of it from alcohol.
I found the story disturbing and now writing is laying it on way too thick that Thomas just misunderstood. Writing is clubbing me to death with poor St. Thomas. It was more than apparent that Bell flipped the script. It was stark cause I went HUH?
I still can't stand Thomas and I don't feel sorry for him despite the halo that writing has put on his head. You can see BandB plot points a mile away...they are already laying the ground work for Caroline to fall for her rapist..I never was a huge Caroline fan but here is another one going through the family tree...
Oh and Ridge is Thomas' father not his brother.
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Thomas is not the kind of character to do this? Bell forgets that Thomas was perfectly willing to have sex with a drunk Hope after she was plied with alcohol by his sister. B&B is doing great with the Sasha and Julius story, but this Thomas and Caroline story is unwatchable for me. If it weren't for the Avants ,I wouldn't tune in. And I always switch the channel during Thomas/Caroline scenes. I will not watch if they become a couple after this.
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I guess you won't be watching anymore because it is inevitable.
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Brad Bell is a pig.
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Stop watching the show then.
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DRUNKEN SEX HAPPENS. Sex under the influence happens. How stupid is it to try to compare this to Cosby???? Brad Bell wrote two people who were very attracted to each other doing something STUPID. There is a HUGE difference in deliberately drugging someone to have sex with them and two people who already had a few encounters who turn to each other for comfort. Bell specifically stated Thomas never knew, he was tipsy as well and Caroline knows that. THIS IS NOT a rape or even close to it and I am personally offended at the columnist who clearly attacked Bell with nastiness. If this had happened to one of MY daughters the exact same way of course i would be upset but would remind her that you live with the consequences of your choices. She chose to take someone elses drugs AND drink. I am sick of hearing women complain and whine about 'consent' after they are STUPID enough to drink or take drugs willingly and end up having sex. You reap what you sow and AGAIN there is a HUGE difference in another person deliberatly slipping something the gal DOESNT know in her system to have sex with her and two people choosing to ingest booze or drugs to feel good and end up having sex. Its called RESPONSIBILITY for your own body.
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all i can say as a grandmother of 7 near adult girls is amen. i watched bold from the beginning and ynr before that from teh beginning. women need to take responsibility for their own actions instead of playing the blame game. sure there is difference in someone slipping a woman a micky and having sex with her when she was out of it mentall against a woman who knowingly drinks to feel good or party and ends up getting tipsy and drunk and going to bed with a guy. many a baby has been born in the past because of drunken sex. as for cosby well i dont doubt the man was and is a sicko but many of those ladies knew what they were getting into, the sixties and seventies were filled with the age of aquarius theme and getting high, and trust me when i say that qualude sex was huge with rich people and famous people. getting stoned was considered normal for famous people and having sex that way. that being said i think thomas really does love caroline and i think she loves him too even though she cant admit it because ridge has his foot on her neck. what they did together was unfortunate but thomas didnt take advantafe of her, it wasnt rape and caroline needs to take some of the blame as well.
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Thank you Cindy!! I actually counsel woman,mostly young woman around these issues. We discuss the slippery slope you can slide down when you choose to drink and drug especially concerning sexual situations. One of the first thoughts I had when Caroline agreed to have Thomas come to the hotel was this isn't going to go well! Specifically because drugs and alcohol were already going to be a part of the evening. Especially a drug she had no idea what would happen. She took 2,one right after the other and washed them down with wine. Doesn't any of the woman on this show have female friends for Pete's sake!!!?? I never saw Caroline pass out. Right after they start kissing the camera cuts and the next time we see them is the next morning so I think it was definitely open to interpretation. I think it was a night of poor decisions on both sides. Definitely not in the same category as Bill Cosby for all the reasons Cindy stated.
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Thank you for that. Some people can't tell the difference from real life and a soap opera. This whole thing is being taken too seriously. Some people act like Thomas and Caroline are real people. Bell never wrote it to be a rape. If he is saying that it wasn't, since he is the writer and the ep, then it wasn't. Let it go people. Move on. B&B is not a news special, Dateline, 48 hours or a documentary.
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I agree 100%.
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Thank you!!!!!!!
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Know what would be the best ending for this story now? That Ridge actually IS the baby's father. It's certainly possible on a soap that one little swimmer got through!
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When a woman whether Thomas knew about the pills or not,COULD SEE she was getting wasted,closing her eyes alot. and he leans over to kiss her,her eyes were closed,Its in my dvr the episode,look closely. When a guy takes advantage of someone so wasted and at that point of closing her eyes, she was experiencing blackouts, no memory, he took advantage of a helpless incoherent woman. Plus being his dads girlfriend makes it even worst. What kind of son does that? He did not have half of what she had. He was clear minded. he remembered evrything the next morning. she was angry at him. she kept the secret and forgave him,to keep things quiet. but he did kinda like a date rape. when someone was so helpless.
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Caroline wasnt Ridges girlfriend. Ridge dumped her. This was SO not date rape. Caroline was not helpless and was clearly kissing him back. As Bell made firm, Thomas was buzzed as well and had no idea. No one was taken advantage of. And i dont know of too many women who kiss with their eyes open. Caroline was very clearly into it.
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It makes sense now and clear. So people need to stop saying Thomas rape Caroline.lets not forget they were once item.
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Yeah, they were. They both still have feelings for each other.
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They never slept together.
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It was a controversial situation and certainly one up to interpretation. What I find befuddling is that this situation is scrutinized, while Quinn raping an amnesiac Liam for months gets completely glossed over.
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Thomas is Ridge's son not his brother.
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I have always believed it was consensual; I would add that Thomas was or felt he was in love with Caroline and would not have assaulted her. Even if he were wild when he arrived, he was always a good kid.
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How ever they are trying to spin it rape is rape she never asked him to have sex with her over and over she told him how much she loved ridge and wanted to be with ridge yes she should not have taken those pill and drank that alcohol and when he took off her clothes she was already passed out and he was not as drunk as he is saying just because he has a pretty face what he did was wrong.
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Rocksan you must have been watching a different channel because the scene faded right after they started kissing with Caroline very clearly kissing him back and just as involved. People need to go back to accepting responsibility for their actions, we have become a society of pointing the finger. Any woman who consumes booze and pills and ends up having sex brings it on herself and if her partner is also tipsy then there is no rape involved, just 2 stupid people who made bad choices. Caroline knows Thomas did not take advantage of her. She said so.
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The viewers and Thomas could clearly see Caroline was wasted and he also knew she was emotionally devastated after her bust-up with his brother, Ridge [Thorsten Kaye]. ....need to fix that lol ridge is not his brother its his father lol
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