‘Elsbeth’ Boss Explains Surprising Romantic Spark in Premiere & Teases Mom Drama Ahead
Spoiler Alert
What To Know
- The Elsbeth Season 4 premiere introduced a surprising romantic spark between Elsbeth and a colleague.
- This season will explore Elsbeth‘s family dynamics, particularly her complicated relationship with her mother.
- Elsbeth boss Jonathan Tolins teases what to expect in Season 4 and how they’re playing with format.
If you’re waiting to see Elsbeth Tascioni (Carrie Preston) and Detective Smullen (Danny Mastrogiorgio) get together in Elsbeth, stay in line! The Elsbeth Season 4 premiere delivered a flicker of a romantic spark between the NYPD lawyer and detective at the end of the October 8 episode, and it was a surprise to both the characters and viewers at home. Although perhaps not every viewer… Warning: Elsbeth spoilers ahead!
Showrunner Jonathan Tolins tells TV Insider that Elsbeth fans and CBS network employees have told him repeatedly that they think Elsbeth and Smullen are going to end up together. Tolins tells us that, while they’re not necessarily planning a big romantic arc between Elsbeth and Smullen right now, the moment was inspired by the “Smelsbeth” shippers.
Elsbeth Season 4 Episode 1 was all about romantic relationships. Nicole Scherzinger guest-starred as renowned marriage counselor Serena Collyer. Serena was married to a handsome Brit who helped her run her business empire, but she had a secret toxic lover whom she murdered when he planned to move back to town and showed little interest in her. She framed a client with anger issues for the crime. Elsbeth and Smullen received unsolicited relationship advice just by being in Serena’s orbit during the murder investigation.
Jojo Whilden/CBS
Intensifying matters was the fact that Smullen and his wife split, and he was struggling with the adjustment. Captain Wagner (Wendell Pierce) and his wife, Claudia (Boston Blue‘s Gloria Reuben), were saddened to hear of their friends’ split, and Elsbeth, of course, wanted to help him feel better. At the end of the episode, Elsbeth and Smullen shared a look that made them both really see each other for the first time. The spark was sparkling.
Here, Tolins explains their intentions with Elsbeth and Smullen and reveals what to expect when Elsbeth’s mother, Lydia (Christine Ebersole), is introduced as Teddy (Ben Levi Ross) plans his wedding. Plus, he explains why they switched the order of the first two episodes and teases what’s to come with this season’s guest stars, the new murder mystery opening acts, and the New York City traditions to come in Elsbeth Season 4.
I was very intrigued by what you’re doing with Elsbeth and Smullen, with that romantic spark at the end of the episode. Where did this idea come from?
Jonathan Tolins: Part of it is just that the world of the case is about couples therapy. It was fun; we thought to have them mistakenly treated like patients and to have to reevaluate their style of communication with each other, so that’s part of it. And we had thought about giving Smullen a story this season to throw him off balance, and we talked about his marriage falling apart.
And also we’re winking at the time-honored tradition of procedurals having will they or won’t they energy between cops who have to work together, so all that stuff is in the mix. Yeah, I will say I don’t want people to think that this season’s going to be about Smelsbeth, as we refer to it, but we were just sort of having fun with the form, and Carrie and Danny are really wonderful with each other.
Michael Parmelee/CBS
Was this an idea you had brewing the last couple of seasons or did it come to you in the time between Seasons 3 and 4?
More the latter, although I will say some people have surprised me saying, “I think Elsbeth and Smullen are going to end up together.” And then other people are like, “Ew, no.”
Fans?
Yeah, or even people who work at the network. So, it was a fun thing to play with and dance around for the first time.
In your mind, was this spark the result of being treated like a couple all episode long? Maybe not necessarily the feelings are really there, but they’ve been treated like a couple, so it’s like a fleeting thought of, “What if we were?”
Yeah, kind of. I mean, it’s almost like they’re both kind of surprised about this moment, and then they end the day. I will say, originally, at one point we switched the order of the first two episodes. And the episode that is premiering tonight originally ended with a phone call that ends now with what is the second episode, which was on camera, but now it’s off camera with a shot of Elsbeth’s apartment. So, the emphasis ending on the Elsbeth-Smullen moment may feel a little bit different than originally intended.
Carrie Preston as Elsbeth Tascioni and Nicholas Braun as Jeremy Perrick in ‘Elsbeth’ Season 4 Episode 2 (Michael Parmelee/CBS)
Interesting. And was it business that caused the change in episode order or was it a creative decision?
We’re all very, very proud of the second episode. I wrote it, but I think the network — everyone — was so excited by Nicole Scherzinger’s performance, and she’s such a huge star, that it felt appropriate to be the premiere of the season.
In the second episode, you have so many guest stars [Nicholas Braun, John Doman, Isaac Powell, Tommy Dorfman, Richard Thomas, and Betsy Aidem]. That would be a strong opener because of the cast list alone.
Yeah, but it wasn’t like, “Oh, we didn’t like this one, so we’re going to move.” It was just about which one felt like we wanted to make a big splash. I would say almost like the second episode, it’s almost more of an Elsbeth connoisseur episode because it’s about our fans, it’s about theater, and it has a sort of more serious B story with Donnelly [Molly Price]. The marriage counselor episode just felt like a big, fun, splashy opener, and then we switched the order.
Ben Levi Ross as Teddy Tascioni and Christine Ebersole as Lydia Guðmundsdóttir in Elsbeth Season 4 Episode 3 (Michael Parmelee/CBS)
You are introducing Elsbeth’s mother this season. What can we expect from this character? She’s mentioned in Episode 1.
Right. She appears for the first time in Episode 3. She’s played by Christine Ebersole, which was announced [recently], and she’s wonderful in the part. If you remember in Season 2, when Elsbeth saw the psychic played by Tracey Ullman, there was talk about how Elsbeth had this really magical connection with her grandmother, and the implication was that other people in her family didn’t quite understand Elsbeth.
We are being true to that in that Lydia, Elsbeth’s mother, is a recognizable Midwestern mom who doesn’t know what to make of her daughter. And so you have these two women who love each other but are always having difficulty understanding each other, and it’s a lot of fun, and she’s really great.
And is their misunderstanding of each other the core of their tension that Elsbeth mentioned in the premiere? She said they’re not on the best terms. Did something else cause it?
You’ll see that Lydia has a way of getting under Elsbeth’s skin all the time, making her doubt herself, which is hard to see. It’s like all of us when we’re with our parents; no matter how old we are, they can just push our buttons and make us regress.
Michael Parmelee/CBS
And then, of course, with Teddy’s wedding involved in this, how’s grandma going to act during this process?
Well, I think Lydia adores her grandson, and they have a kind of bond that sometimes Elsbeth finds irritating that she’s not a part of. But I think Lydia is very concerned that Elsbeth will do anything to hurt Teddy’s relationship with his new possible in-laws. I think the main thing about them is that Lydia really cares what other people think, and Elsbeth is her own person and can seem like an oddball to other people. And Lydia, because she doesn’t want her daughter to get hurt, and also because she’s just someone who doesn’t want to be noticed, has trouble understanding her, and they’re always at loggerheads.
When you said that Lydia doesn’t want Elsbeth to do anything that would upset the in-laws, I went, “Ooh, ouch,” just from the assumption that she would cause a problem just being herself. How does she deal with that?
Well, it’s difficult, but also there’s a base of love there. And what we’ve done in Episode 4 is that the family story intersects with a murder investigation, and Lydia sees that what Elsbeth is doing with her life now actually is very impressive to people, and Lydia realizes that some of her fears of embarrassment or other people’s judgment are unfounded.
Michael Parmelee/CBS
That’s good to know. And will we see Teddy’s wedding this season?
I hope so!
What kind of mom is Elsbeth going to be in a wedding planning process? We got a little taste of it in the first episode.
It’s hard because she has her enthusiasms and a very vivid personality, but there are lots of issues that come up when you’re preparing for a wedding in terms of there are financial questions and there’s who’s going to be your date and lots of things that we’ll explore as we get closer.
And a potential ex-husband reunion at a wedding?
That is potential.
Michael Parmelee/CBS
Is this the closest we’ve gotten to Will Patton coming to the show? [Patton played Elsbeth’s ex-husband, Mike Tascioni, in The Good Wife.]
We have not talked to his people or I’m not sure whether we would… Because they’re on pretty bad terms, Elsbeth and Michael Tascioni.
But is he on bad terms with his son to the point where he wouldn’t come to his wedding?
Actually, no, they’re not on bad terms. In fact, the implication even in the first episode is that actually he’s still on good terms with Elsbeth’s mother.
Yes, and that might bother her too. It’s interesting that you tied it into Elsbeth having a special connection with her grandmother and now Teddy has this relationship with his grandmother. Is Elsbeth a little blind to the parallels there?
So far, yeah.
But it’ll be an emotional challenge for her?
Yeah. There are other emotional challenges that are going to come that I won’t talk about.
Michael Parmelee/CBS
Last season, you were experimenting with new ways to enter into the killings. How are you experimenting with that this season?
Oh gosh, you’ll see we have a lot [of new murder introductions]. We have an episode early on where Elsbeth focuses on the wrong person for most of the episode. We have an episode that ends with a hitman aiming at people we know.
Real-life people?
Characters. At least one character that we know, and we see suddenly that character in the sights of a hitman’s scope. We have lots of fun ways into our stories because obviously we don’t want it to feel repetitive or boring, and we’re always trying to surprise ourselves and to play with the form.
And you’re always mixing New York City culture into this, so what new New York things have you roped into this season?
Well, the second episode is all about the theater, the current state of the theater in New York. We have an episode that takes place in the world of competitive eating on Coney Island. We started shooting today an episode about birding in New York City. We have an episode coming up about American Revolutionary War reenactors. We have fun worlds to explore.
Michael Parmelee/CBS
And we have Gloria Reuben back in the first episode. Is she going to be back again this season?
Gloria is one of those very busy actors who’s on another show. She’s on Boston Blue, which is also a CBS show, so we can’t get her probably as often as we would like. It’s a very tricky balance always to use these wonderful actors and characters that we love on the show, but we don’t have a hold on any of them. So, a lot of it’s about scheduling and trying to figure out stories as early as possible to make sure that we can get them when we want them. And so we have to be kind of free in the process and improvise depending on who’s available and what we can do.
Of course. In the first episode, tell me if I read this wrong, but I sensed something concerning between Wagner and Claudia when they were talking about Smullen’s separation, saying things happen to couples. I wondered, “Are they planting a seed for some potential marital strife between these two?”
Oh, that’s interesting, but no. For me, that moment is about whenever a couple breaks up, the other people in their circle find it a somewhat disquieting experience. It’s upsetting when one couple breaks up, the other couples around them just feel unsettled, and it’s a nice moment to see them say, “Well, that happens to other people, but we still have what we have.”
OK, good. I’m glad. I was 90% sure that they’re doing well, but I wondered, “Are they saying this because they’re going to change it later?”
No, no. Wagner and Claudia are, to me, a really shining example of a great couple.
Michael Parmelee/CBS
I agree. They’re a very nice couple. And will Wagner’s daughter be back this season as well?
Yes.
And Carra Patterson, we’ll see her again?
Yes.
How is the Elsbeth and Wagner relationship being challenged in Season 4?
Well, he’s going to go through some problems this season with the new commissioner, played by Campbell Scott, who we love. And because of things that happen, Wagner’s going to have to go out in the field more with Elsbeth, which is fun.
Elsbeth, Thursdays, 9/8c, CBS
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