‘American Horror Story: 13’: Elle Chapman on Ashley’s Feelings for Ben & Why She Calls Out Kira

American Horror Story: 13 slows things down for Episode 5, “Date Night,” a surprisingly intimate two-hander that puts Ben (Joey Pollari) and Ashley (Elle Chapman) at the center while revealing more about both characters. Warning: Spoilers ahead for American Horror Story: 13 Episode 5.

The episode picks up with Ashley, the mysterious friend of Kira’s (Madelaine Petsch) from the doomed Flight 13, reaching out to Ben after surviving the crash. What begins as a late-night visit involving wine, Mint Milanos, and plenty of dark humor soon becomes a much deeper conversation between two people dealing with survivor’s guilt in very different ways.

Ashley isn’t interested in being treated like a victim, despite the horrific scars that cover her body, left behind by the crash. And as she and Ben open up to each other, they discover they have something unexpected in common: a fear of the number 13. For Ashley, that fear goes back to a horrifying 2020 encounter with Piggy Man from AHS: Roanoke, which left her the sole survivor of a family massacre.

The night also gives Ashley the chance to offer Ben a very different perspective on Kira. While Ben still struggles with losing the woman who made him feel at home, Ashley knows another side of her best friend and isn’t afraid to question the hold Kira had over both of them.

TV Insider spoke with Chapman about what Ashley sees in Ben that he may not see in himself, her complicated feelings about Kira, connecting Ashley to the larger American Horror Story mythology, and more.

This episode is completely different from what we usually see from American Horror Story. It felt so out of left field, but it worked on so many levels because it was so intimate.

Elle Chapman: Thank you so much for saying that. That means so much, and I have to say, I think a huge credit to why that episode was so different was because of Jesse Peretz, who directed it. He just really understands relationships. He worked so much on Girls. He worked on Love Story, so I just felt like he had a really strong instinct for the comedy and also just building that connection between our characters. And he let us experiment and play, and just let us be emotional, but also funny and human. I think that’s exactly what the episode is. So I was super grateful for Jesse.

Eric Liebowitz/FX

This episode strips away almost everybody else and locks in on Ashley and Ben. What do we understand about Ben after seeing him through Ashley’s eyes that we couldn’t have learned through Kira or any of the other characters?

I think Ashley is such a great device to allow the audience to get to know Ben because otherwise, how would you learn about his past? These characters are discovering each other, as well as discovering this intimacy and relationship.

Joey and I talk about it all the time, where it’s so fun for us because that episode — I mean, we’ve become such great friends, and that episode was such a foundation for our friendship. And we were becoming friends as our characters were getting to know each other. The instant I met Joey, I was enamored with him. I just think he’s so wonderful and talented, and he’s become such a dear friend of mine. And so I think that admiration for each other kind of bled through the episode. And you get to see this, like, side of Ben that you haven’t seen before yet in the show.

Ashley and Ben seem to have this immediate connection because they’ve survived tragedy and disaster, but they handle survival very differently. What does Ashley recognize in Ben that maybe he doesn’t recognize in himself yet?

I think that Ashley’s unique because she’s not your like a traditional survivor. She doesn’t really treat herself as a victim, and you know, obviously, they bond over their shared fear of the number 13 and their past, but she doesn’t look at him as broken. She looks at him as someone that can, I guess, survive through this and doesn’t have to be seen as a victim. So she kind of uses humor to work through her grief, and I think she kind of pushes Ben to do the same.

There’s an interesting shift where Ashley seems to need someone who understands her, but she very quickly starts examining Ben. Why do you think she’s so interested in figuring him out?

That’s an interesting question. Her best friend was always Kira, so I think she’s known Ben in that setting. But I think she realizes, very quickly – or maybe it was always there — an interest in him. I think there’s a lot about him that she finds intriguing. Maybe even prior to the crash…

Eric Liebowitz/FX

I think Episode 5 was Ashley acknowledging those complicated feelings and try to connect with Ben on those, and I think maybe that’s what she’s wanted all along. So, I think there’s a lot of ways that she feels intrigued by Ben and connected.

Ashley is one of the few people willing to say some pretty harsh things about Kira to Ben. What does her perspective tell us about the version of Kira that Ben perhaps never saw?

She maybe saw the darker sides of Kira that Ben was too enamored with her to really see and realize. And I mean, I do think in Episode 1, you see a little bit of that. His character is so scared of the number 13 and the fact that his girlfriend is trying to push him to go on this trip with him and all his girlfriends, all centered around the number 13. And you [later] realize Ashley dealt with the same thing, where Kira knew that she had undergone this tragedy and still told her to come on this trip with her.

And so I think Ashley kind of brings to light how Ben was so manipulated by Kira and kind of opens his eyes. And I think while that’s happening, the viewers are seeing more to Ben, and they’re opening to this other side of his childhood and what he’d gone through prior to meeting him in Episode 1.

Do you think Ashley was, in some ways, venting her own frustration over what Kira did to her onto Ben?

Totally. I think she’s really looking for someone to validate these feelings she’s probably felt for a long time. And I think Ben — I mean, it’s hard, obviously, because it [was] his girlfriend, so I think there’s a loyalty there, and she just passed. But I think she is looking for someone to validate these feelings that are complicated because, obviously, you don’t want to speak ill of the dead.

And I think it’s hard to admit these things. Maybe it’s hard to be honest about your complicated feelings about someone who’s passed. And I think she turns to Ben to try to validate these and also work through them.

In this episode, we learn Ashley survived an encounter with Piggy Man, which suddenly connects her directly to “Roanoke.” What were you told about Ashley’s place in the larger American Horror Story mythology beyond what we see here?

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It was such an honor to join this franchise. I actually never watched American Horror Story growing up. My sister was a huge American Horror Story fan, and so I would always walk into her room and see her watching an episode and get so scared and run out. So, now, to find myself inside an episode is very surreal.

And honestly, after we finished filming, I told myself, I’m an adult now. I feel like I can watch this. You know, I’ve already worked on the show, so I started watching the show, and I fell in love with it. I think it is so incredible. I loved “Murder House.” I watched “Coven.” I watched “Asylum.” I watched “Apocalypse.” I haven’t watched “Roanoke.” I need to watch “Roanoke.”

But after working on it, it’s now so [much] easier to watch and not be terrified because you know the whole crew and you know everything that goes into these episodes to create this incredible universe. And I’m beyond grateful that I got to be a part of it, and I’m even more grateful for the people I got to work with. In Episode 1, I got directed by Ryan Murphy, which is amazing, and working with Jesse Peretz, Episode 5, and then Joey Pollari becoming one of my dearest friends. I just… I have so much gratitude for this show and this franchise.

American Horror Story: 13, Thursdays, 9/8c, FX and Hulu