‘Violent Minds: Killers on Tape’ to Reveal ‘Huge’ New Details About Ted Bundy (VIDEO)
Exclusive
New details about notorious serial killer Ted Bundy are set to be revealed in upcoming Oxygen True Crime docuseries Violent Minds: Killers on Tape, which premieres April 2.
The series pulls from 650 hours of conversations between inmates and renowned psychologist Dr. Al Carlisle, a devout Mormon who stood in the face of evil, looking to understand how someone would commit such horrifying atrocities. His sessions were discovered by his family after his death in 2018.
Each episode of the show delves into killers’ minds through taped interviews between Carlisle and perpetrators dating back to the 1970s and 1980s. Apart from Bundy, the series also includes men convicted in Utah’s Hi-Fi Shop mass murders, Arthur Gary Bishop, and Manny Cortez. The two-part premiere centers on Dr. Carlisle’s interactions and psychological evaluations of Ted Bundy, first when he was arrested and charged in Utah in 1975.
Among those who provide insight into the programs is Carrie Anne Drazewski-Keller. She served as a creative consultant for Dr. Carlisle in the “Development of the Violent Mind” book series and currently hosts “The CrimeJuicy Cocktail Hour.” Here Drazewski-Keller teases never-before-seen information and revelations to come. Plus, check out an exclusive clip.
What would you say made Dr. Carlisle’s approach so effective when building that connection with serial killers such as Ted Bundy?
Carrie Anne Drazewski-Keller: Dr. Carlisle’s approach was very succinct. He was short and sweet. Most of the time when he did ask you a question, it wasn’t a question you could just answer yes or no. It allowed people to open up. Questions he would ask to dig into the story he heard.
What are some of the things that make Violent Minds: Killers on Tape eye-opening? Any new findings?
There is a lot of history to this. We’re getting into a little bit of criminal archeology because we’re now almost 50 years back. As a criminal anthropologist, that’s very exciting to me that this new information is coming out, in particular about Ted Bundy. There is some never-before-seen information from him. Test scores, I’m not allowed to say one of the big things we’re going to release, but it’s going to be huge. For researchers and academics like me who study this, it’s a huge thing for us in particular that this information is going to be available.
How were these recordings discovered?
The existence of these tapes was not understood in its entirety until Dr. Carlisle passed because he had items at his home, his office, his storage unit, a document control room he had and other locations. When he passed, we had all these documents we had to bring together so that we could see them clearly. We thought we lost most of the Bundy stuff he had from the prison because there was a flood, and we did have to get rid of a couple of boxes in his house. There was no way we could even see what it was. I was there. It was a mess. There was nothing that could be done. We felt we had lost the most important information from Ted Bundy, but we found it. It was located in a closet he’d forgotten about.
What will the focus be on those Bundy episodes with all those hours?
I think in these first two episodes what we’re going to see is Dr. Carlisle’s fascination with the development of the violent mind begins. Ted Bundy sparked that flame. How personable Ted Bundy was and juxtaposed with him being such a monster. It fascinated him.
Dr. Carlisle, pictured left (NBC/Universal)
Dr. Carlisle is a Mormon and sits down with these notorious murderers. Quite the contrast, but he seemed to go in with an open mind, willing to listen.
He went in with an open mind. His first question usually was what happened to make this happen to this person. He would get contacted by some killers and ask, “Why did this happen to me?” They would write back and forth for years. Then he would go visit them when he was able to and find out more. His belief system is that everyone is born good and is always good people, but that good people do bad things. That’s what he told me. He needed to understand why.
Dr. Carlisle was before his time in his technique and a body of work that spans 40 years. How was it getting to know his process?
His greatest skill was listening. In listening, he was able to be your biggest cheerleader. He made everyone feel like he was their best friend. He was my best friend. Everyone else felt that too. He listened to what your theories were. He was on it. He also had a team around him of transcribers and a lot of fo people helping him do this work. He was just an amazing person who once he got that question, wouldn’t let it go until you were both satisfied getting the answer. We have to understand what occurred. We don’t want another child being killed, but we also don’t want another child being turned into a killer either. It was a big thing on both ends for him.
What are some of the things you found interesting from what was revealed about Ted Bundy and his relationship with Dr. Carlisle?
I really could see the relationship that Ted Bundy had with Doc and Doc had with Ted Bundy. They were friends. If you listen to some of the tapes when Ted Bundy escapes from prison in Colorado, he calls Doc when he gets back in. He’s talking about it like he is talking to a friend going on a camping trip. It’s very relaxed. He is laughing. There is a lot to it that you feel shouldn’t be there in this situation of seriousness. The laughing and chuckling. There is some psychopathy there. Where he thinks it’s not that big a deal to lose all that weight to squeeze through that hole [in the ceiling of his cell] to get out. The tenacity. Then always call him Al. Ted Bundy insisted on calling him Al rather than Dr. Carlisle, which I always thought was a little off. He wanted to do that to make him feel like Doc was on his level.
Was there another case or killer you were interested in seeing explored?
I think the one closest to my heart and those from the state of Utah would be the story of the Hi-Fi killers. I believe they do a great job bringing that story to light. It’s a little-known case outside of Utah, but it’s huge in Utah. It’s a tearjerker hearing the victims and their stories. I will say there is more to every story in the Hi-Fi killer case in particular.
With all these recordings on hand, if there is a season 2, is there another case or killer you want to be included?
Doc worked with many other killers. I think we need to look into his work with the “Happy Face” Keith Jesperson. He is a fascinating case. He didn’t start killing until later on in life in history. He is fascinating to researchers in particular. He turned himself in like Ed Kemper. Doc didn’t work with Ed Kemper, but there are a lot of parallels in those stories. I think that is fascinating.
Violent Minds: Killers on Tape premieres, April 2, 7/6c, Oxygen
The complete series will also stream on Peacock.
