‘The 100’s Executive Producer Breaks His Silence About Lexa’s Death
Update: Earlier this week, fans of The 100 were upset over some comments that Jason Rothenberg made about Lexa’s death. The exec producer opened up about the controversy in a new blog post today. Read his comments in the post, “The Life and Death of Lexa,” here.
Let’s get something straight: Killing off a character is never a decision that is made in haste. TV producers and writers are always explaining the heartache of saying goodbye to both the actors and the roles they play because, despite what some folks would have you think, they are not history’s worst monsters. They are humans who come to love their casts and their characters as much as we do, but they are also ultimately telling a story. Sometimes those stories nail it, sometimes the plot twists feel more like a knife twist.
In the weeks since The 1oo killed off Lexa (Alycia Debnam-Carey) following a long-awaited but too brief moment of actual happiness with Clarke (Eliza Taylor), there has been an outcry amongst the fans, LGBQT groups and the media. Did the show feed into TV’s historical and shameful trope of killing lesbian and bisexual characters? Was there too much #Clexa hype on social media leading up to the episode? Did they realize that this was such a painful and inflammatory decision? As the show prepares for a panel presentation at L.A.’s WonderCon this Sunday, executive producer and series creator Jason Rothenberg spoke exclusively with TVInsider.com about what he has learned from the controversy, why he would never intend to hurt the LGBQT community and how he plans to face the fans at the convention.
OK, so you had to be aware of the uproar that would come from killing Lexa, right? This was something that you guys had to realize you’d be walking into.
Yes and no. First of all, I think I should start by saying that for the last two weeks, I’ve pretty much thought about nothing else except for this. It’s taken me some time to process everything, and I’ve been listening, reading everything I could. I took my voice out of it on Twitter because I didn’t want to inflame the situation, and I felt like I didn’t want to shape the conversation. I just wanted to listen and try to understand. I mean, we were a little surprised by it—obviously not that people were upset; you’re right in the sense that we kind of knew that that would happen. The story that we’re telling is a tragedy. Lexa was a meaningful character to our fans, especially LGBTQ fans, and so I knew it would be emotional, of course. What was unexpected was the level of outrage that it’s generated from some people, but I do think I have come to understand that.
We’ve seen this with shows with strong social media bases: The louder the outrage, the more disturbing it can get.
Yeah. Lexa’s death triggered real emotional trauma for some people, you know? It tapped into the real world, it tapped into their lives, and as a straight white male, I obviously didn’t anticipate how deeply it would affect certain people. I look at it now and I realize that if somebody had that kind of a reaction and then were to look back at the way I behaved on Twitter leading up to it, which was celebrating this relationship that then crushed them, I can understand why they would find that reprehensible. I hope that people understand that.
Alycia Debnam-Carey and Neil Sandilands
Since there is no winning on Twitter, what do you want to say to the fans now?
I would say, first of all, that it’s taken me a while to get perspective on it myself and to put myself in the position of somebody who was hurt like that. And I hope that eventually they can start to put themselves in our position and understand that we would never want to hurt anybody like that. We would never want to hurt our fans. We love them, we owe them everything, we owe them the fact that we just got a Season 4 to them. We want to take them for a ride, we don’t want to hurt them. And because we didn’t anticipate this sort of level of pain over this fictional death, we were doing what we always do on Twitter, which was celebrating work that we’re proud of. In hindsight, knowing what I know now and sort of realizing the things that I’ve realized, we should have done less of that. We should have done less buildup knowing where this was going to end up and knowing how this was going to affect people.
But it wouldn’t have changed the story you’re telling.
No, absolutely not. We would have told the same story. I stand behind the story; I just don’t think I would have gone out of my way to say ‘This is the best episode we’ve ever done!’ Nobody really anticipated that this would happen so now that we’ve seen it, the idea for me as the showrunner going forward is to learn lessons from it, you know? This is a show where characters die. That’s another reason we were so surprised..it’s a post-apocalyptic world set 100 years later in which anyone can die.
You’ve killed children, you’ve killed people of color, you’ve killed Grounders and Mountain Men. You do have a non-discriminatory death toll on this show.
That’s true, this is a world where we treat everybody equally and I feel like that includes, by the way, the manner in which people die. Another reason why I was surprised, to a certain extent, by the negativity in the reaction [to Lexa’s death] is that we’ve created this world where it doesn’t matter what color you are or whether you’re a male or a female or who you love, whether you’re gay or straight. It’s about survival, it’s about ‘Can you help me survive today?’ And by the way, I’m not naïve to know that the real world isn’t like that, I know that the real world isn’t like that. That’s why science-fiction is such a great genre, because we can try to make a point and have messages and the message here is that race, sexuality, those things shouldn’t matter, and that extends to the way that characters die. In this world, it doesn’t matter, you can die if you’re gay or straight, you can die if you’re a series regular or not. This is going to be a crazy season…it’s already been a crazy season. More characters that we love are going to die this season and it’s going to happen soon.
Wait, what?
[Laughs] I think that people need to be prepared for that.
Eliza Taylor and Jason Rothenberg at Comic-Con.
You and some of the cast are headed to WonderCon in LA this weekend. Are you prepared to face a potentially hostile crowd?
You know, I feel like going to those conventions is an honor for sure, and I’m always nervous about it. But I’m looking forward to getting in front of the fans and talking to them and having a real dialogue about this, if that’s something that the fans want. It’s an honor and a privilege, it’s really the greatest privilege of my life—other than being the father of my kids and the husband of my wife—to be the creator of this show and I really love the opportunity to get to talk about it as much as possible.
This story isn’t done yet, and it involves levels of reincarnation. Is that something that you are looking to as far as introducing a new character for Clarke to love?
To be honest, Clarke is experiencing the loss of someone she loved, and you know, this is a show where people don’t just get over things quickly. That goes for physical injuries as well as emotional ones, so Clarke’s going to be nursing a broken heart into the foreseeable future. We are, you’re right, in a world of reincarnation, technological reincarnation, which is another reason that the Lexa story had to end in death, because to get to reincarnation, someone has to die first. And so we are now telling a story in which a human mind can be uploaded into the City of Light. We’ve been there, we’ve seen people walk around in the City of Light, and this flame that came out of Lexa’s head, what does that mean? I don’t want to spoil too much and I certainly don’t want to tease whether or not Lexa’s coming back, but that is a technological fact in our show.
So there is a possibility for some kind of moment of resolution for the fans that are just so devastated by this.
You know, the whole sort of accusation of queer baiting has me very sensitive with regard to answering the question about that. I would say that definitely we are living in a world of reincarnation where the human mind can be uploaded into a flame and into the City of Light, and we see the people from the real world, we’ve seen Jaha there, we’ve seen Allie there, we’ve seen other characters there, so anything is possible, but I don’t want to give too much away.
And that has been the plan all along, right?
Oh, 100%. The cake has been baked on this one before it started to air. We finished shooting everything before we even aired. I was actually on the set filming the finale when the premiere aired.
And what did Alycia and Eliza have to say about this twist when they were told? How did they take it?
I can’t remember when I told them the story, but I think when I told them that she was going to die and it was going to be the single most significant event of the season, it was going to link everything in the show from both the Sky People and the Grounders. So on a world-creation level, and on a plot level this season, it was the landing point that everything was being geared towards. Alycia was blown away by it, you know? It sounded crazy I’m sure, that an AI would come out the back of her head. I know that playing those scenes was incredibly emotional and powerful. I’m just blown away by how emotional and incredible those performances are.
“Thirteen” proved to be a very unlucky number, indeed.
How do you prep the cast for something like WonderCon when there is so much to talk about and yet so much you can’t spoil?
You know, these guys are going around and doing conventions all around the world, so they’re getting practiced at! I think it’s incredible that these outside conventions are happening, so they’re better at it than I am, frankly. They’ll prep me on how to handle the situation. [Laughs]
Do you have any plans to kind of break any big news or are you guys planning any surprises?
We do plan on showing something to the audience before we start the panel. I don’t think I should get into what that is yet, but I think it’s something that people will be excited to see. With this show it’s always difficult because we try to design the experience to be as surprising as possible. Spoilers are the worst. And it’s really hard as you well know, because we’ve talked so many times now—how do you talk about this show without spoiling things? I think when the season is over, I would like to sit down and have a real detailed conversation about all of it.
I’m down for that. What can you give us as far as teasing something that would be coming up the week of the panel, which is also your first episode after hiatus.
Episode 3.09 is amazing. It’s another dark episode. We know that certain characters are in jail, we come back to Polis and we pick up in the aftermath of Lexa’s death and we begin to understand what the conclave is all about. Let’s just say things unfold from there and we begin to see Clarke doing what Clarke does, which is compartmentalizing and finding a way to suck down her pain and be our hero and try and save her people yet again. With the loss of Lexa, she has to worry about whether or not the new commander will continue to be an ally. So we’ll see her doing what people do in life when terrible things happen, when tragedy strikes. She’s going to suck it up and try to move on and do what she has to do to save her people.
Allie…oops! Erica Cerra’s artificial intelligence bombshell rocked our world.
Any chance of seeing more episodes set in the past aboard Polaris?
I loved that story. I had been waiting since the beginning to do an origin story really, because that’s what that was, it was the origin of the Ark, the end of the world. I think Javier [Grillo-Marxauch], the writer of the script, did a great job laying in this mythology of the second A.I. Every one of those scenes is so dense and rich and that’s a tough thing to do because none of the characters in the show, aside from Erica Cerra playing Becca, are in those scenes. But they were still fascinating and emotional.
I want to know what was going on with all these people up there.
Spinoff!
That’s what I’m saying! Let’s get that out there.
Well we’re talking about it. We’re talking about both how to continue that story in The 100, and are there possibilities to explore other time periods, in a way.
Alright, well when you’re ready to talk about it, let me know.
If the fans want it, and they ask for it and they scream loud enough, maybe they’ll get it.
The 100 returns March 31 at 9/8c on The CW.
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Hahahahahha this dude has learned NOTHING. Jason buddy if you read this just wanna let you know that you're making everything worse. Like I legit was getting over it in the sense that I wasn't as angry anymore but reading this shit got me angry all over again.
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Same.
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Why?
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read all the comments. If you still don't get it then come back and tell me and I'll explain it to you https://www.classy.org/fundraise?fcid=625415
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He didn't address the main issue. This entire article is Jason saying basically nothing because he doesn't want to spoil anything and that all he's learned is that he, maybe, shouldn't have promoted Lexa so much (so much as in he would have always promoted her and Clexa pretty hard anyway because he is proud of his work). That's it. The only response here even slightly addressing the Dead Lesbian Syndrome trope, which is part of the reason why a lot of fans are madin the first place, is that he said any character could die at any time in any way. There's still no responsibility being taken. He's just seemed to casually shrug it [his responsibility] all off.
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Because he completely missed the point ONCE AGAIN. He took 2 weeks off social media supposedly to understand what is happening better but his speech is exactly the same as it was right after the episode aired. "It wasn't our intention to hurt anyone.""I stand by what we wrote""Lexa's death would have occured no matter what" the only thing he added was that maybe if he knew the exact extension of the hate he wouldn't have hyped us up as much, that's all.
Because to him the real issue is how loud we are being and not the fact that he killed off a Lesbian character by a fucking stray bullet right after sex. He thinks that part was fine and he stands by it but what he stands by is what we are mad about. Him hyping us up was just what worsened the situation because the real problem here is that he killed a lesbian character in the most disrespectful way and completely prooving that not only lesbian characters never get a happy ending but that love was weakness after all.
He is trying to do damage control but he only makes it worse because he still hasn't understood that what he did was fucking wrong. He is saying I am sorry you're hurt but I am not sorry for killing off Lexa.
Just imagine this, your gf/bf cheats on you and all they say is "I'm sorry I hurt you but I am not sorry I cheated on you". What would be your reaction to that?
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Exactly on all points. Love isn't weakness-so Lexa finally realizes that love is not weakness, then love makes her weak so she's dead.
Life is about more than just surviving. You know who might have liked to really learn that for herself, rather than just say it as she's dying-LEXA. She had what an hour in story time, but about 70 seconds in tv land time, of being happy and doing more than just surviving. Are you freaking kidding me. Oh but gee she got to have sex before accidentally getting shot by a stray bullet intended for the one she loved.
And by the way, how stupid was that anyway? Titus wanted Clarke to leave and told Lexa that she was putting both herself and Clarke in danger. So Clarke was leaving and Titus tries to kill her. Yeah, what kind of brainiac is he?
Titus tells Lexa she's special because of all she's accomplished, but what she's worked toward is peace even beginning with all the clans-a coalition. And they've been fighting forever-she had to just take it when Azgeda threw Costia's head on her bed. Ok, so what did Lexa accomplish that Titus approved of-certainly not peace, because he wants to kill Clarke to start a war.
What kind of inane trumped up ending for Lexa was this anyway? She's dead because he wanted Clarke to leave-Clarke was leaving. She's dead because he wanted to start a war, but he admired her for what she tried to do, which was work for peace. Ok morons. Furthermore, she's dead because of Pike and Bellamy-idiot 1 and idiot 2. Great idea killing all those people when they have the numbers to surround you. So, another trumped up story line.
All of this wasn't about Lexa's death serving the plot or story, it was about the plot or story serving the desire to kill Lexa off.
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Where's the apology for all the months of queerbaiting though? He says he hyped one episode? No, he was hyping the lesbian character/relationship for months. He was telling fans that she wasn't dying when he'd already decided to kill her. He used the LGBT fans because he knows how passionate they are and how much of a presence they can have, and then he got rid of one of the main components of the show that they were actually invested in. I'm sure all the little white straight fans will be pleased with this but those of us actually affected by it aren't. It's too late and not nearly enough. We all know that Clark's done her Girl Time now and she'll go on to end up with the male lead in S4. Well that's been done literally thousands of times, it's boring, and it's nothing special anymore. To think we actually thought this show was going to be different. That it would genuinely make a difference in terms of LGBT characters in modern media. What a joke. I'm embarrassed we trusted this guy.
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As non-lgbt myself, i must admit that i found Jason's answer satisfactory. But alas, this is not just about my straight ass self. It is important to hear people out, not just understand, but empathize with the LGBT community. This is where the showrunner utterly fails. He can't look past his privilege & live in the eyes of the minority. Very disappointing for a man of his status. 🙁
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Stefanie, thank you. I can not speak for Sarah but I think she is deeply hurt and this may come from that. Please know that we do not all think of you that way and I value your opinion.
Hurt is hurt and I think it is important to acknowledge that. Somewhere it is comforting to know that you are with us.
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I believe to do that, you have to go outside of yourself and stop believing everything you've been saying. Start listening to the hearts of those that are talking to you. He doesn't get it. But in truth, I'm a white female. I won't pretend to fully understand what a PoC goes through on a day to day basis, but if someone of color asks me if I'm writing a specific story that will hurt them and I say "no", then do it anyway, obvious is obvious.
I can however see that as well as the bad treatment of the one lesbian character on the show, there is a pervasive similar treatment of PoC. The two loudest crazies on the show are black males. Then there's Hannah who is obnoxious to the extreme. Wells, dead. So when any character is a minority on a show, their death or bad character/decisions will be more potently felt.
When a character is in a featured role, and is one of two non-straight females involved in a main story line and in a long drawn out love story, well your heart and your brain should tell you to be gentle.
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I kept telling people not to buy into his tweets that he was going to kill her. He'll probably kill Bellamy as well. I wouldn't be shocked it's his MO. You can't be that big of a fan of GOT and then promote articles comparing the shows and then think that he's not going to cause major carnage. He might be a sociopath hard to say, but I totally saw this coming and I guess that's why I'm not mad. Bummer though I'd be gutted if they ever killed someone on some of the relationship focused shows I like, but the Producers on those shows aren't sadistic nor are they running a show about a post-apocalyptic world.
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I was so hurt by Lexa's death!!! I am still wondering if I will have the courage to watch the next episode too. Lexa had such a good impact on me and how I perceive the LGBT community now. AMAZING JOB Alycia Debnam-Carey
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As an SWM I find "little white straight fans" both reductive and dismissive, but I think I get it.
I am certainly unsurprised at the response to the manner of Lexa's death. That Alycia Debnam-Carey was leaving the show is beside the point; Lexa should not have died like that. I don't know how else they could have handled her departure, but having her shot accidentally after leaving what could have been her and Clarke's marital bed was disgusting.
And I was immediately pissed off.
If they have her wind up with backbone-less Bellamy, as you suggest, I hope that I have no heavy objects nearby. Given that the writers have shown that she responds better emotionally to women, they should leave it that way.
Also, I can't afford a new TV.
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As I recall the guy who interviewed Jason for this article was solidly on his side and pretty insensitive to the fans who expressed legitimate concerns over Lexa's death. He went on a twitter blocking spree with anyone who disagreed with him. It would be great if an unbiased member of the media was able to interview Jason.
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WHY do you think he's the one Jason turned to for this whole lot of nothing interview?!
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Yeah lol. HE FINALLY SPEAKS UP......to his friends. Between this, and the podcasts with Jo, I'm anticipating the groundbreaking interview his wife will do with him soon.
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LMAO...maybe he'll get that speedmouse blogger to do it... (you know the one who kept advocating for Lexa's death for months, saying that blarke was glorious and then called us 'trolls, bullies and haters', a tweet he then re-tweeted)...a person he kept praising the more she praised him. The size of the ego on this man is so big he needs his own google maps pin!
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That's why I hope that for WonderCon anyone that really wants to speak to him about this issue does speak up. It'll be nice to get a response directly from the fans that are upset to clear the air about everything. Also, the San Diego ComicCon will be coming up, so it will probably also be a good place for the issues about the show to be addressed more directly.
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There is nothing legitimate about the "concerns" over Lexa's death. People die. Gay or straight, Sky People or Grounder. Lexa isn't a "gay character." She's a character who just happens to be gay. We know, you don't like your favorite characters dying. Watch something else.
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Okay, show me another tv show where a lesbian female character is a leader with a romance subplot, where nobody dies and I'll shut up.
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Jason Rothenberg, full of experience and the trademark for all shows of "what not to do on a television show", is literally never going to get any associations with any show whatsoever. Nobody will want to work with a tyrannical showrunner (as exposed by one of the cast member's mothers) and nobody is going to work with somebody who continues to lie. Alycia was blown away? A complete lie and disproved by what she said at PaleyFest. He cannot keep hiding behind his young cast to try and defend his non-retrievable honour.
Mo Ryan from Variety even called out his cowardice in not tweeting (when he's a prolific, frequent tweeter) and not addressing the situation. His very interview shows that Mr. Rothenberg does not understand the situation at all. This isn't about Lexa's death; this is about the very famous lesbian death trope and the arrogance (from Javi, the episode writer's tumblr) that the writers' room thought that they could actually subvert the years-long trope. Absolutely disgraceful and unbelivable. I couldn't believe it when I read this interview. He absolutely dodges questions that are too difficult to answer; when Mo Ryan, again, from Variety interviewed him about the first four episodes he struggled because he's hopeless in them. He didn't even know the definition of genocide. Mr. Rothenberg, what exactly did you expect but backlash and heartbreak when you cruelly hyped up episode 7 to a majorly LGBT fanbase only for it to feature that disgusting, cheap, lazy trope?
Quite frankly, his answers are evasive and proves absolutely 100% he just doesn't get it. He will never get it. His show is riddled with cheap cliches, rushed plots and redemption arcs; the only thing critically acclaimed, really, was the Lexa character and the build-up of their romance, in hindsight. It is such a shame to see a talented young actress as Alycia Debnam-Carey go in such a lazily written fashion. But as Variety says, even if 9 writers of 10 disagree with the showrunner (with the showrunner being the 10th), the showrunner can overrule their disagreement and go ahead with their ego-inflated "creative genius".
The fact that he doesn't recognise the Trevor Project fundraiser at all, something positive and lifesaving in the face of this ugly, disgusting, lazy storyline is telling. He doesn't care. It's all business to him. Why do you think such a fan favourite was hyped so much during the first 6 episodes? To get renewal of course--though CW doesn't seem to care much for ratings (which will tank so badly for this sub-par, below-average show, tweeny show). Did he ever mention the manipulation in which he sent a writer into a message forum to glean what they were saying and to lie blatantly and say everything would be fine? Did he mention the fact that he openly tweeted for fans to join them on the streets of Vancouver for the finale viewing, and KNEW people would see Alycia Debnam-Carey? Did he mention the fact that for months, ever since San Diego Comic Con, he's been exploiting the LGBT fanbase? Has he mentioned the writers' tweets of "Sell it. SELL IT HARD" re: Clarke/Lexa? Of course not, because he's a money-spinner; he doesn't care about the audience's feelings. He can enjoy his season four, because I doubt anybody unless you're utterly delusional to the horrible quality of the show is going to watch it.
And also, well done, Mr. Rothenberg, on your fame-hungriness. You've been mentioned on USA Today, Variety and Rolling Stone--as the show that stirred all of this in the first place. As the show that no other show should take an example of. Well done indeed.
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Characters die, deal with it.
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Did you miss the bit where I literally said, word for word, "this isn't about Lexa's death"? And thus the entirety of the comment?
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We all didn't miss what you said, but we also noticed that your entire post was really just about how you didn't like Lexa's death, your statement notwithstanding. Face it, what this is about is that a character apparently cannot die nowadays because she's a lesbian. Nevermind that Lexa's character is chiefly a powerful female leader, and her sexuality isn't the sole raison d'etre of her character. People die. You don't have to like it. The bisexual protagonist and two other gay characters are very much alive. Thank the gods you got a tv show with that many nuanced young lgbt characters whose sexuality ISN'T the central purpose of their existence. Deal with it.
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You're an idiot who obviously don't get it. It must be nice seeing a representative of yourself on every fucking show on TV. Must be nice being a straight white male. Go float yourself.
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You mean there are other lgb characters on this show? I had no idea! Well, my problems with the show are over! I mean, it's not like her disapproving father shot her with a stray bullet minutes (if you count the commercial break, there were multiple minutes) after she had sex for the first time with her love interest, said girlfriend being the intended target because he objected to Lexa's relationship.
And it's certainly not like there's a bigger, overarching problem here, like of the 12 or so queer women on scripted tv shows right now, 4 have died in the past month. Or that roughly 80% of all women who have same-sex relationships on scripted tv also show them ending in some kind of tragedy.
When it comes to The 100 specifically, it's not like literally everyone Clarke's been involved with sexually dies (one gets away with just a beating because they're not romantically involved) as a result of sex/romance with her. Or that Word of God has confirmed that Clarke, like every female character who might come under the umbrella of bi or pansexual, will never define her sexuality because there isn't a word 150ish years into the future for non-standard sexualities...
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How?! Okay--the PR exploitation game, widely known now, the attempt at the subversion of trope and the direct impact--yes I suppose if you looked at it from Lexa's angle it's about her. But if this level of manipulation happened elsewhere the same uproar would happen--you're not killing a lesbian,that’s not the problem--you're exploiting and using your fanbase and the fanbase didn't like being used to that extent
Massively. On a general level of course there are bi and gay etc characters on tv; each individual would respond differently to them. For example not all gay men might relate to Kurt from Glee (I know..) thus representation is not there. So this constant battle of representation (which is poor on the show regardless) is an uphill battle. Perhaps if it was bolstered by a good plot--that'd be nice. But no, the "problem", the movement--not about a singular death. I'm 100% over Lexa's death -- I didn't grieve because I had real life events. But others did--so when you say "deal with it" it doesn't affect me because there's nothing to deal with; yet say it to a vulnerable lgbtq teen who's still upset and it's rashly insensitive and unnecessary. You as one person don't dictate how others feel. How you think you have the audacity is beyond me. Thank goodness I am not upset for it nor do I care for the show--however I have the simple humanity to care if someone is hurting. And thus I will not be telling anyone to "get over it"--how audacious, inconsiderate and frankly incompetent is that?
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I would say apology not accepted but you didn't apologize so...
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So, Jason stands by his decision of killing Lexa by a stray bullet just after the love scene? That's the whole issue. That's the thing that needs to addressed along with the queerbaiting.
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Ratings, that's what it was all about. Getting the LGBT community to watch and promote it. No wonder they never advertised the show, they had the gay community doing it all on tumblr and youtube.
And her death was all about ratings too. He has to be just loving this controversy since even bad press is good press. So you gave fans what they were waiting for, a poignant amazing love scene, then couldn't wait to have her "daddy" shoot her.
If he wants to freaking understand one thing it should be just how cruel that was. How many gays face the nightmare of their family rejecting them or using violence-how many come from violent realities?
This whole thing was sick and cruel and he's still being so.
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jason...buddy...my man.....
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He makes a great show we all love and he gets this for thanks! What is wrong with you people?
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He made a decent show wlw girls loved because there was nobody like Lexa on screen, and then he killed her by a stray bullet minutes after she had her first on screen sex scene. By her father figure. Who disapproved of her relationship. By a stray bullet. And still hasn't actually apologized.
Familial (logical or biological) rejection is, like, the biggest primal nightmare you can bring to a LGBT-related media. Having it literally kill one of the most interesting lesbian characters in a decade...
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Jason, you've learned nothing
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Sorry, do I have to flip your site to read about his apology to the fans? He kept on saying he understand, when it is all clear to us that HE DOESN'T, AND HE NEVER WILL.
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How are you so sure?
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At a guess? His actions. And his words. They're rather indicative of someone that doesn't have a damn clue.
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Hi, I wanted to give you a more detailed answer. Now, I'm not LGBT so I can't promise everyone who will see this that my answer will be flawless and I hope they can give me the benefit of the doubt here.
(This answer got REALLY long. 😞 I'm really sorryabout that, I didn't mean to give you a lecture. It's just that as I got writing I started to understand things better myself, so I just kept going. And it's probably stuff you already know, so I hope it doesn't piss you off.)
Jason basically does two things in this interview that MIGHT indicate he doesn't understand or that he hasn't learned.
1. First, he doesn't acknowledge that there were problems in HOW they told the story of Lexa dying. Immediately after her brief moment of happiness, in a way that she doesn't die because of her own actions, by a male father figure who disapproves of her relationship with Clarke, etc. All these things are part of that trope that erases LGBT characters.
I think he actually DOES understand these particular issues, but is not addressing it for other reasons: PR imperatives, legal jeopardy, under orders from CW management, or just a determination not to acknowledge they were wrong in what they did in the show.
2. In the second case I do think he doesn't understand something. It's to do with when he says anyone can die in this show. It's true, but by putting it this way he glosses over the real differences in impact that killing different minority characters can have, which killing mainstream white straight characters does not have.
To explain, let me use race as an example because I understand that better than LGBT. When talking about issues that that affect black people differently than white people you can make two extreme responses. You can say that being black is so different than being white that white people can never understand the issue—merely because they're not black and haven't lived through the black experience. The other extreme response is to say that people are the same because we're all just human beings and that differences in race don't matter because everyone goes through things like this.
Both of these extreme replies are wrong, the first one because it excludes any possibility that white people and black people share in anything important and can ever reconcile, and the second because it glosses over the history of discrimination that makes a lot of
issues hit black people especially hard in important ways, erases the aspects of their identity that makes them unique, and ignores the fact that discrimination against African Americans is far from over.
Jason said that the show is egalitarian because any character can die, and it doesn't matter what their sexuality or race is. But it does matter—the way a show kills off an LGBT person hits LGBT people particularly hard because there are so few of them and they have never been allowed to have happy endings in TV and movies since forever.
A right answer would have acknowledged this history at least to some degree. He could have said, for instance, that he struggles with the need to both make his show equal and at the same time not to ignore the very real history that will make things hurt some minority groups more than others. But he didn't.
Of course, in the United States alone there are tens of millions of people of all races and sexualities who don't understand this and choose one or the other extreme response, even though they are good, well-meaning people. And so I don't think the sheer amount of angry criticism he has gotten on his point is perfectly fair. Lots of people who criticize him for his extreme answer are themselves equally guilty of the other extreme, like that person above whose anger is understandable but whose comment, that Jason doesn't understand "AND HE NEVER WILL," is really absurd.
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Nice Johnathan. I think he does know, maybe we're in for more disappointment by the end of season, so maybe they're thinking best we wait till the height of disappointment before getting any deeper into the discussion. Or it'll be sorry, smash us again, oh sorry again. It was a calculated step into this discussion, in time for facing fans, hopefully a proper discussion will eventuate at the end of season.
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Really great explanation Jonathan!
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As a gay woman, thank you Jonathan, that about sums it up
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I appreciate this Jonathan. A gay woman who has waited all her life for entertainment purveyors to remember we are people too.
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So basically you kept silent and listened in order to learn yet you're just repeating the same excuses over again? Boy, you really do have much to learn but don't worry buddy, we're definitely going to show you.
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"try to make a point and have messages and the message here is that race, sexuality, those things shouldn't matter.."
So explain to us why did you follow the two most homophobic tv tropes?
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Also, I always find it really problematic when folks try to say "those things shouldn't matter". It's inevitably those with privilege saying it. It may not "other" people in your world, but it matters a great deal to your viewers who deal with all of those things daily. Ignoring that just sets the stage for playing into all the problematic tropes we're upset about!
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Especially when he knew about them. It's one thing to be ignorant of such a thing, but even following accidental tropes can do real harm just as accidental stray bullets can.
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Lexa's death was not about being a lesbian! That's his point, anyone can die on this show whether they're part of a minority group or not. What, you expect him to change the story just because she's a lesbian? That my friend is not equality.
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here, learn something
"As a creator it’s very easy to pretend that your works are not part of a trend. It’s tempting, especially if you’re not part of a marginalized group, to put blinders on and focus entirely on your work. Your work isn’t political, you tell yourself, and your creative decision is just that, a decision that serves your creative work.
And that is, of course, your right. No one is saying that an artist shouldn’t be allowed to kill a gay or lesbian character. I want to make that clear, since whenever any piece of media is criticized at any time for any reason, the immediate response from someone on the internet is to call it censorship. What I’m saying is that pretending your work exists outside of trends or political context is disingenuous."
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What an ass. Especially the last part - he still doesn't get it. Not at all. I loved Alycia's interviews much more - he is only concerned about his show.
"Alright, well when you’re ready to talk about it, let me know.
If the fans want it, and they ask for it and they scream loud enough, maybe they’ll get it."
Really?
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I think they are talking about spinoff's there.
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Yes, blatant self promotion on top of it, it is the cherry on top - he truly has no shame whats-o-ever. Pompous.
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He was asked the question, what was he supposed to say
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How is it blatant self promotion when he's only replying to a question asked by a interviewer? And it's not even in the makings, its probably just an idea floating around.
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It is a jab at the screaming fans part.
"If the fans want it, and they ask for it and they scream loud enough, maybe they’ll get it."
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Sure. This show can't even do a decent spin anymore, let alone a spinoff. Judging from the ratings for the last episode, and the fact that they pissed off the people who actually created the buzz they needed, this show will have a short season 4 to wrap things up, and then bye bye birdy.
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It's almost guaranteed that those ratings will rebound, as there were other factors in play with the ratings drop.
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It's gross that he feels he has the ability to put himself into the position of a lesbian. What a raging narcissist.
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He says he did not intent to hurt us, I to an extent believe this however we told him, multiple times where our pain and fear came from. If he wasn't intentionally disregarding our feelings he was at least negligent.
Also I can not believe her is baiting us in an article that has him admitting the fault in baiting us. I know this is a PR article but if this is the best they can come up with I wish them luck in the con season.
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I think he is right about he wasn't thinking about hurting us. But just because he doesn't give a fuck about us, he just want audience and followers at twitter.
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Honestly, it will be a bloody trainwreck that I will enjoy the hell out of.
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It's really amazing that this guy managed to make such a problematic decision on his show and learn absolutely nothing from the outrage and backlash he's faced. He could at least apologize for the mental anguish he's caused his audience.
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The point people want an apology for a story he(along with other writers and/or producers) is telling is an actual problem.
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It's not. If the creators of the teletubbies started including midgetporn, everybody would expect them to apologise. Writing a TV show is not this sacred arc people make it our to be. it's a product you sell, and if people get angry, because your product sucks, then it's not their fault, but yours.
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I agree with you TV show is not a sacred arc. I feel anyone and everyone can be critical of any TV show. It is where people feel they can demand an apology for a death of a fictional TV character is where I stop agreeing.
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it's a death of the fictional character for you (although I feel it needs to be mentioned again, that we are not upset over the fact that she died, but the real life events leading up to it, and the circumstances of the death) but for many people, she was a beacon of hope. She was important for a community that is already oppressed in some ways, and many people were vary to tune in, but since they have been promised fair treatment, they have. People are upset about the lack of respect and the disregard of the many valid concerns raised, a lot more than the actual fact that Lexa died, even though it was a stupid ass death that didn't do justice to the character.
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I'm a gay man and i'm not angry at all at the way she died! So now..just because lgbt people are oppressed in some ways or do not have super easy life, an author can't kill a lesbian or a gay character in a cruel way?! If u want to write a realistic tv show, people mostly die in not heroic ways.
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it is plenty of shows that shows real disturbing aspects of life, but an author should always have the right to write his own story how the hell he wants to, as long as he warns the audience that there could be potential disturbing scenes for someone.
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If he should have the right to write his own story, then his audience should have the right to criticise it, and leave if they don't like it. Art, contrary to what showrunners like to think ,doesn't exist in a vacuum, TV shows especially. TV shows are products, just like cars, clothes or food. If you go to a restaurant, and the food is shit, you don't go there again. it's not different with TV either. We are not required to like and stay around for storylines we do not give two shits about and that make us unneccesarily sad and TV shows can't have it both ways with profiting (literally, financially profiting) from the audience's attention and then saying they can write whatever they want and that's their artistic freedom.
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You know nothing, Jason Roth!
Clearly he's still clueless and could care less about what he'd done. And is only breaking silence because Alycia showed more ovaries at PaleyFest on Saturday saying the fans anger and pain needed to be recognized/acknowledged and that it was insensitively handled. And because he's afraid he'll get tomatoed at Wonder Con (I hope he does).
Too little, too late....and worse, the interviewer going out of his way from the very beginning trying to down play it.
And ALL because he's not creative enough to come up with a better storlyine than killing someone for a dumb chip in their neck. Oh wait...lets see...knock them out and take it! Geez, how difficult was that? Took me all of 5 nano seconds to come up with! She didn't have to die for that thing to be revealed, he's just too un-creative to think of a better storyline.
Because as Season 3 has proven, everything is done for short-term shock value rather than long-term sustainable storytelling. Kill off a central character that could've provided a million future storylines (and by way of lesbian death trope lame gimmick none the less), for a not terribly original temporary storyline of of two opposing AIs (basically POI) that is getting destroyed in the finale anyway, so it's all for nothing in the end. And all at the expense of character development and clear motivations, because they've done nothing more than cram as many 'twist' they can in each episode, making most of the characters seem like multiple personality psychopaths or brainless sheep. Long gone are the interesting moral conundrums of the past, or the philosophical questions that use to push forward the narrative. S3 is twist to get from point A to B, with nothing left in their wake to show for it. I shouldn't have gotten a S4, the show has gone to the toilet.
And probably worse than everything, now he's saying Clarke won't even mourn because she'll ''suck it up''?! Diminishing even more the legitimacy and importance of their relationship. Great, just great.
I hope this man never gets his hands on another show to ruin and stomp on his fans with his arrogance.
P.s. him laughing about not preparing his actors for the Cons is the biggest lie of all. We KNOW thanks to the actors that he's forbid them to talk about.
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I do think that he's slightly clueless to the deficiencies in his writing, but, as you said, that pertains to numerous storylines this season.
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This is such bullshit - nobody cares about the fictional world of "equal opportunities death" when this show exists in the real world. The treatment of PoC characters and actors has been shameful especially on a show with a premise that could be sondiered somewhat racist to begin with, they should have tread extra careful. Killing an innocent black boy and drumming up sympathy for the while girl who did it(when that character didn't even die in the book) was total horseshit. Anya didn't need to die. And frankly while we're at it Lexa didn't need to die either. sometimes you need to accept the story you want to tell is the wrong one, when you're afforded a platform like this you have an affect on others and should show responsibility with it. If we got to tell stories like this, it wouldn't be such a big deal. But we don't. It's guys like JR that end up as showrunners, not us.
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Furthermore the whole 'we tell the story we want to tell' is so not true for a tv show that has been on air for more than a few episodes. That is not how art or writing works. You start with what you want to write about but after a while, your story keeps talking back to you and becomes an entity of it's own, and if you don't let it, that's how bullshit like Bellamy's arc this season come about. And the stories that you share with the world, and your fans do not exist in a vacuum, and they become other people's as much as yours, so you can't just keep bringing up 'it's mine so I can do what I want with it' as a reason for hurting a lot of people or if you do, then you can't say it wasn't your shitty decision that caused people pain. You can't have it both ways.
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Yeah, I'm tired to death of "but guys, in X show ANYONE can die!!". Well shit, anyone can die in real life too, what kind of excuse is that? The term "cultural vacuum" has probably been beaten like a dead horse by now, but seriously, we *don't* live in a cultural nor social vacuum. Excuses mean nothing.
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Classy guy, this interviewer
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When do the lies stop? I believe him when he says that he didn't anticipate the outrage, because how many other shows have gotten away with the Bury Your Gays trope, but he's outright lying when he says he didn't intentionally set out to harm us. We have the social media receipts. He was constantly hyping #clexa. He was constantly giving false hope to fans, talking about how this time it would be different. This time they wouldn't write into known tropes. His show was *progressive*. Almost every single episode teaser and ad featured Lexa and Clexa. He even invited fans to the finale shoot because it would lead fans into a false sense of security before he cruelly killed Lexa for "shock value". All the "accidental" leaked spoilers. And still, he doesn't apologize. He is a narcissistic pathological liar who doesn't care about anything but his inflated ego.
ps The only prominent (that have had more than 60 seconds of screen time) white non-minority character to have died on The 1OO: Finn. Prominent POC deaths include: Anya, Wells, Maya, and Lincoln (and btw Ricky Whittle has said Jason a bully and that he deliberately cut all of his scenes this season up to his death). So much for "the 1OO doesn't discriminate" lie.
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Actually, Ricky Whittle says that he left the show, which caused Jason to do that. Obviously, that wasn't handled well by Jason, but Lincoln's death is because of Ricky's choice.
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Ricky left the show because Jason was a bully. He did an interview on it and his Twitter was full of stuff shading Jason. We still don't have the full story but Ricky left because he didn't feel safe or comfortable at work. Because Jason's an asshole.
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I didn't say Jason kicked him off the show. We actually don't know for sure whether Lincoln was written off the show first and then Ricky got the AG gig or vice versa.
All I said Jason deliberately cut out all of his scenes leading up to his death. How many minutes of screen time has Lincoln had in the last 8 episodes? Look on Ricky's twitter. Not only did he call Jason a bully at Surivalcon, he also said the same on Twitter. Ricky's mom even called Jason out on Twitter.
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Whether it's speaking creatively or speaking to the greater social issue, Lexa's death was mishandled and insensitive on many levels. It's been stated well in other comments, but the issue is that we were ALL toyed with as viewers. As beautifully acted and scripted as the death scene was, it was heartbreaking and unnecessary. It didn't do her character justice, it was rushed, it was too soon and it just hurt. The beauty and the potential of the Clexa storyline was thrown away. To add insult, his responses to the fan reaction seem very disingenuous. It's unfortunate that he chooses to keep talking. He's coming across callused, uncaring, and entitled and it's disgusting. Just because you might not feel the same way, it doesn't make the next person's feelings any less valid. I'm actually sickened by his responses (or lack of) to this whole thing, but the interviewer's responses to some comments on Twitter about this has been even worse. At this point I'm ashamed for all straight people. Fortunately, we are not all so clueless.
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"I don’t want to spoil too much and I certainly don’t want to tease whether or not Lexa’s coming back" Really? Because i seem to recall that he invited people to watch them film the season finale, so we know Lexa is coming back, and we know she's going to die, again. People are not going to fall for his lies again. And he wonders why people accuse him of queer-baiting, he literally just did it again.
Dear Jason, next time don't tell people "there's always hope" even if you know damn well there is not. Don't tell people that you're "In post, working on the most insane Clarke/Lexa scene. God, these two are good together" just so they keep watching your show. Don't promise them behind the scene pictures if they win a poll. Don't queerbait people.
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I agree with you, but Lexa's not exactly dying again, as she's not really coming back to life. At least this will, hopefully, give viewers a poignant goodbye between Lexa and Clarke.
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Are you serious? It's not going to give viewers a "poignant goodbye". And i assure you that most of the people that will watch that episode won't really care about it, because the people that cared about Lexa won't watch it.
And I know she's not coming back to life. It doesn't matter if it's just her "consciousness" or whatever in the CoL, it still going to feel like they're killing her again.
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She's dead period. As much as I love Lexa-ADC, I'm done watching this show.
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seriously?
This whole thing will end up being just rubbing in our face what we once had, couldve had, and rip us apart all over again, and as a bonus watch her die again, cause yes that is what she will do
DIE AGAIN
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To you and Marija, all I'm saying is that the "poignant goodbye" is the entire point of these types of storylines, as it's been done several times before on television when an AI is introduced into the plot. I don't necessarily love the idea, as it's a cliche by this point in time, but I also don't think that it will remotely seem as though they're killing her again. As a fan of Lexa, I would rather have this last goodbye between the two than not have it at all.
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I honestly don't care if that's the storyline. To me, and many others it will feel like they are killing her again. If you don't feel that way, good for you, it's cool, we all have different opinions and feel differently about things, there's nothing wrong with that. Just don't try to tell me that i shouldn't feel like they're killing her just because she's not really alive, and because of the AI plot.
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Same. I'm done with the show, and the network.
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Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to tell you how to feel about that stuff in the finale, but my comments do sort of come off like that. Apologies.
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No problem. We're cool.
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Exactly. Is this queer-baiting part 2? Yes, her ghost or virtuality will be in the finale. Great, so Clarke can hug an image of Lexa and then question who the real Lexa was-the chip or the girl. Wonderful. Kill her body in one episode. Kill her memory in another.
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But it will feel hollow since it isn't her, but a representation of her. We already had this horrific shock and insta-pain. Then came the pics (what a wonderful thing to release) of her shrouded body and the pain got worse. It was like they were trying to rub salt in the wound. This is how much they care about us?
Then, we get to watch as she disintegrates within the CoL after her virtual presence hugs Clarke goodbye? I don't know. Sure it will work for some, but because a lot of us invested our own imagination into the story, we will not see Lexa as real.
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It's really fascinating how Jason claims to have "read everything the fans had to say and listened to them" and then goes on and completely misses the point AGAIN. And btw saying it wasn't your intention to hurt anybody does not magically make up for the fact that you hurt a lot of people.
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No, it doesn't, but nothing will make up for it.
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Well.... at acknowledging the problem and it's consequences would be a good start. Taking responsibility maybe? I have tons of things wrong in my life does that mean I have to do nothing about it since it's in the past and I can't change it?
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So, can you tell that our interviewer here is a white straight male or nah? lol
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Yeah check his twitter.
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What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
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I'm glad Jason did this interview. Thank you to TVInsider. With that said, I did want to note that I (and others) aren't upset that Lexa died per se. People die on The 100 left and right. Any fan of the show knows that.
But we do take issue with the timing of Lexa's death and how she died -- i.e., being killed by a stray bullet within all of 30 some odd seconds of her finally consummating her relationship with Clarke; not to mention that the shot was fired by (arguably) a parental figure who disapproved of Lexa's feelings for Clarke (though it was a political disapproval). That's where the trope lies -- in those negative connotations.
I don't think the writers intended those negative connotations, of course, but they are there regardless.
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He doesn't have any clue on what he's writing and its impact on the community. He's after to the "shock value" of the show, I remember him tweeting when Lexa got shot "WHO SEE THAT COMING?"-yeah seriously? What an insensitive man!
Also, JRoth and the rest of the writers didn't anticipated that Lexa of all the series regulars on the show is the FAN FAVORITE- that's a fact, by just looking at how this issue blew out on their faces-the trending topics etc. oh yeah, she's my favorite not because she's a lesbian but because she's a gem, very rare lesbian powerful character that no other tv shows have ever.
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I'm sorry, the whole reaction to this has been absurd. People hurting themselves over the death of a fictional character? People sending death threats to writers? What are we doing here?
Instead of imbuing a television show with so much power, seek therapy. Find a friend. Do something to fix that part of yourselves because this is not healthy and those behind The 100 are not responsible for the severity of reaction from their "fans."
Also, this idea that writers should write for shippers/preserve ships over advancing story and that LGBT characters should be exempt from death, particularly on a show where death isn't discriminatory about who it takes, is PC culture to the fullest and a major sign that fans have become way too entitled.
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You obviously have no idea what it's like to be unable to pay for therapy or find friends, which can be near impossible for some people with mental illnesses. You've probably never experienced discrimination. When the writing itself is bad (an accident? a stray bullet? really??) and there were other routes that could have been taken (e.g. commanders can be removed if they die OR if they're voted out; Lexa could have been voted out by Clarke to keep her alive if people were starting to rally and get violent, she'd have the AI removed to be given to the next commander and banished. Alycia's off the show, Lexa's alive, the same plot can go on, everybody's content) then there's really no excuse. The 100 is a shitshow riddled with plot holes and this just made it so much worse, not to mention the way people of color are treated. Queer women die because of who they love (Lexa, Costia) or have every single one of their love interests killed so that they're miserable (Clarke losing Wells, Finn, and Lexa) and people of color are killed, villainized, or constantly miserable (Wells, Jaha, Raven, Bellamy, Lincoln [very likely dying this season], Anya, Indra is likely to die) (honestly the only exceptions to this I can think of are Miller, Kane, and Monty, and Monty is a walking stereotype). It's ridiculous once you see it. Intentional or not, it's incredibly unfair to marginalized groups to consistently be treated like this on TV, which is why everyone is so sick of it. If you're annoyed with it then keep watching your shitshow and ignore us. We can't just flick to another channel to find another queer woman to relate to. There are straight people EVERYWHERE. Until you know what it's like to experience that, you have no place to complain about so-called "entitlement" (since when is wanting to be treated fairly entitlement?) and you should really stay in your lane.
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The "reaction" as you call it has raised over 46k for The Trevor Project. The "reaction" has sparked a conversation outside of queer media about the treatment of queer characters on screen. Voices are finally being seen as something beyond numbers.
People aren't pissed because Lexa's dead, they are pissed about the circumstances, the timing, the how, and the why! It was shoddy storytelling for a show that has subverted that gracefully in the past. This time, The 100 verged on a dangerous message to young LGBTQ watching to show (here we have a rarely depicted love scene that fades obviously straight into a stray bullet shot the gun of a father-figure killing the lesbian warrior leader because he disapproved of the shared love between these two women) (oh wait, I think I saw this episode of Buffy before...)
Actually taking that into account, plus a little basic Internet research (and stepping outside your own personal privileged perspective) would help you figure that out.
For your perusal, some stats and articles:
1) A growing list of the (currently) 146 Dead Lesbian and Bisexual Characters On TV, And How They Died (vs the only 29 who have survived/got happy endings) - http://www.autostraddle.com/all-65-dead-lesbian-and-bisexual-characters-on-tv-and-how-they-died-312315/
2) As of today, the 80th day of 2016, 8 gueer woman have died in primetime in 2016. To simplify, a queer woman has died on tv every 10 days in 2016. That's a 1/4 of ALL fictional women-loving-women on television.
3) http://variety.com/2016/tv/opinion/the-100-lexa-jason-rothenberg-1201729110/
4) From the moment people found out Lexa was queer, fans feared that she was going to die. Doesn't that say anything about how we have come to expect queer characters to be treated on television? If her character HAD to die for PLOT or because of contractual bullshit, let the character die like everyone else on the show (or you know, how her character deserved to go out) IN BATTLE. Like a champion. Fighting for peace. Protecting her people. Protecting her love. Not for entering a room because she heard a disturbance. Not by a stray bullet. Not from a GUT shot that is easily non-fatal and we have seen people on the show survive way worse.
5) stop throwing "PC" around like it's a dirty word. Acknowledging that language can be damaging and it's easy to say things without being OFFENSIVE is not a bad thing. The belief systems behind bigoted languages and actions are the problem, not people asking for equality and respect. Goodness gracious.
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To be fair, everything this season has been rushed, but I agree that Lexa's death was not handled well. I'm sure that Jason will talk about that aspect of the entire backlash at Wondercon, at least I hope he does.
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It is not a matter of queer characters being exempt. There are so few queer characters on television, let alone complex, well-written ones like Lexa.
The CW has had 7 shows in the past two years with queer female characters. 5 of these shows have killed off a queer female character and a 6th is expected to very soon. None of their shows allowed queer female characters to have happy endings.
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I feel like all he wants is to be praised for the storyline and he's annoyed that people are angry about this instead of enjoying his super awesome idea. Well, you tease the dog and you're gonna get bit, Jason. Javi admitted you knew about the trope and thought you were above being called out for it. Well you clearly have no idea how deep it cuts. Your story is not more important than hurting a bunch of queer kids that you lead on.
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Death threats and abusive messages were unacceptable.
That aside, I think mainly people are saying don't queerbait, sell tickets to a sinking ship that's gonna sink the minute after its set sail. Media is at this stage still the go to place for young ones to seek validation in this world, it's unfortunate that it's not society at large, and we are all responsible for society at large, and media is certainly more stimulating than a therapists office. We could make this work, give fair representation to all. I don't think it's entitlement to ask for fair representation and not to be queer-baited, it's quite appropriate. That doesn't mean to change your story, but to consider your story if you're writing in a lesbian character and certainly consider your promotion of it. There are far too few lesbian characters in media, that so many of them die, it's spotlighting an issue in the story writing departments of the media world, and this issue of fair representation for LGBT and other minorities is valid, and our collective attitudes towards supporting and enforcing our youth no matter what their sexuality or race, is critical. That's our future right there, if we are to be diverse, they're our future, how do we want it to be. How we nature our kids matters.
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Dear "..." Your response firstly shows that you have no empathy nor any knowledge about the "people" you referred to. The "people" you are talking about here are of a vulnerable and often misrepresented, oppressed social group that own every right to express how they feel about a major representation of them in a major TV show & participate in civil social movement to improve how representation of their community is handled on media/how decisions about them are made in "real life" business decision making. If you don't understand, try to do some research first instead of giving such a condescending attitude towards a group you clearly know nothing about.
These "people" that you are talking about are shouting out of feeling hurt and manipulated in "real life" caused by an event that's created/decided by "real people" involving how the marketing strategy was handled and the responses that followed as well. Stop invalidating them with this illusion in your head that that they are just some "irrational, young fan girls" who know nothing and just acting up. They know EXACTLY what is going on and WHAT they are trying to change.
Saying "Find another show" "Go to therapy" is like saying "Why don't you transfer to another school" to a bullied kid or "Why don't you move out from my country if you don't like it here". It's saying "shut up!" to an abused kid crying loud of hurt, so you can go back to watch your TV show in peace. Who is the one feeling "way to entitled" here?
To give you some facts, The 100 still owns 100% of their artistic freedom. They can do it and in fact they have done it, but freedom doesn't exempt the consequences that may follow. Most of "people" that you talk about are not giving irrational death threats but participating in a logical discussion with a legitimate goal to improve the media culture in treating minorities in a respectable and realistic manners. Many of the "people" that you are talking about here are also adults who participate in this discussion. Many of the "people" are also not asking for the right to be exempt from death, but "how" the death scene handled. Unless you give me a list of counter-examples, of straight, male characters that also happen to die from a stray bullet shot from a /mother father figure who happens to disapprove your relationship, and end up trying to kill your partner, 70 seconds after the characters have sex and confess love to their romantic interests, you can't convince me otherwise that this event wasn't caused by people who internationalized some levels of sexism and homophobia, consciously or not.
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So...we can't kill off gay characters in television shows anymore? Given the underrepresentation of blacks and Latinos, I assume writers can't kill them off anymore as well?
Wow...The Walking Dead just got really frikkin boring.
Cheers!
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G
Someone get this guy that cookie analogy so his privileged brain can understand.
Never thought empathy was such a difficult thing to feel. But damn, straight white dudes always hitting new lows.
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It must be awesome to be able to type the word "privilege" in lieu of making a cogent, logical point.
Your problem seems to be that you only feel empathy for your particular sub-group du jour. I feel empathy for everyone, I could care less what their color, creed, or sexuality is.
Well-written dramatic fiction is designed to make you care. Drama hurts, and unless the sexuality or color or whatever of a character is fundamental to the story being told it's irrelevant when it come to who lives and who dies.
But it's good to know that dramatic fiction should never introduce gay characters if there is a possibility of them ever being killed off.
Cheers!
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R
So in the last season of 24 when Jack Bauer finally gets the possibility of happiness with Renee Walker...they have sex and she immediately gets killed off. So what was the message there....if you're a straight white, male in a serious time crunch you can't be happy?
One can argue about whether or not this is good storytelling, but somehow the sexuality of a character somehow makes a dramatic death acceptable or not acceptable?
Death in drama is as much about writing the impact on the surviving characters as it is the character who died. Getting happiness snatched away from you moments after you achieve it has been in drama since the Greeks.
Cheers!
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That was embracing and nurture. Predictive is driving me to shoot myself
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That's exactly what all the 'all lives matter people' and 'not all men' movements are about.
Because you are in the privileged group you take a slight offense when when some calls out bullshit like this. Because you don't see yourself as the problem. You see a 1 white person die and you see that as equal to 1 lgbt person dying. Disputes the statistics and ratios.
Now because you feel offended by this reaction (because you don't see yourself as part of the problem but you do see yourself as member of the group we are 'attacking') you make the movement all inclusive. You make sure 'all' live matter because you are in 'all' lives and of course you matter. Everyone matters.
But that negates from the point. That lgbt character (mainly women) are killed at an exponentially higher rate when compared to ratios of straight people. Just like black males are killed at an higher rate than white males in ratio.
The group that is be abused (lgbt women in this case) are the ones that need the awareness. It's not my place to bring up racism here because its homophobia that's the issue.
Saying lgbt characters deserve better isn't saying straight chat yes deserve worse. It's giving attention to specific problem that's effects a specific set of people.
And you don't have to make that about someone else's oppression. Oppression is not a competition.
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That's projection right there. I literally (and I mean that literally) don't get offended by anything. Maybe bad logic...but that's more of a heavy annoyance than an offense.
Let's see...reviewing your response...something about victimhood and privilege...pop psychology....pop psychology......oh hey, a point on topic...let's go with that.
A showrunner should not be limited to what he does with a character because he/she decided to make that character a certain sexuality. Full stop.
Hey Damon Lindelof, want to make a character gay? Nope sorry, your hands are now tied because if for dramatic purposes you want to kill that character off, you can't.
Essentially what you are saying is that a writer has a greater responsibility to whatever your particular brand of social justice is than he/she does with writing a compelling story. That is absurd on the face of it.
Cheers!
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Dude, I swear you are missing the point on purpose. Yes, LGBT characters can die, so can latinos and black people and yadda yadda (both of those have a lot more representation btw than lgbt women, so still not the same case, but anyway).
The point is, that introducing a character like this, a lesbian woman, comes with a responsibility. It comes with a responsibility, because their treatment and fate is a lot more sensitive than a straight white dude, because we have seen the same white dude have the exact same storyline 5743853478534 times.
It is a responsibility, because you do not need representation, because you see yourself everywhere, but young lesbian/bisexual girls do not have anything basically, and whether you want to admit that or not, growing up as a gay/bi/etc person is a LOT harder in many ways, than growing up straight and white. it's lonely and scary and the reason we consume fiction, especially when we are young is because we are looking for characters that are like us, and face similar struggles, and to see them overcome those.
So you can get off your high horse with "i empathize with everyone" becaus that is not about that. We all cry on titanic, or the gladiator, we are all emphatic for everyone's struggle, but you can't understand what it is to only see yourself die on screen.
But you know, you are a straight white dude, you absolutely can tell everyone how they should be feeling about how straight white dudes like you treat them
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Let me explain, I'm rather tired but you posed a question I assume you wanted answering. There are two parts that need adressing here.
1) No one is saying you can't kill gay characters, what is being said is that one needs to be careful and think of the implications when doing so. This lead into point to why, why do you need to be careful?
2) The person above seemed angry and asked someone to rationally explain the following thing to you. The impact of one death is not the same as the other. When one has two plates of let's say jellybeans. One is overflowing with jellybeans and the other has two. When you take one away from both plates, does it have the same impact? One plate now has one jellybean and the other still is full of jellybeans.
The impact is not the same, we can say the same for LGBT characters. We are not saying you can't take one away but you should really think about it. If you only have two jellybeans you may want to wait until you're hungry or can't take it anymore. While you may take from the other plate just as a snack.
I hope that cleared things up for you
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Hope you got some sleep…
1. So where does this rabbit hole end precisely? I need to be careful about killing off gay characters because it may impact the LGBT members of my audience negatively. I need to be careful about killing off Muslim characters because it may impact the Muslim members of my audience negatively. I need to be careful about killing off black characters because it may impact the black members of my audience negatively.
Or maybe most of these people don’t care…
When you start making your story decisions based on what sub-group you may or may not impact, your story is essentially no longer yours. Character deaths should be carefully considered in how they impact storytelling. That’s it.
2. Angry. On the Internet? Couldn’t be.
Your jelly bean analogy only works if the % of LGBT deaths on TV is a higher % of the representation than the % of non-LGBT deaths.
According to GLAAD’s 2014 “Where Are We on TV” report, 3.9% of broadcast series characters, or 32 of 813 are LGBT. So let’s assume that’s consistent for cable as well, even though the % of LGBT on cable is probably higher. Let’s also assume that number is consistent for 2015. It may or may not be, but it’s the only data I have.
So far in 2015-2016, 4 LGBT characters have been killed off. Based on what I’m reading, this is considered unprecedented. This is 12.5% of the LGBT characters on TV.
In a 2015 Buzzfeed article, they list 106 TV Deaths in 2015 (there were more, but they generally stick to regulars). But for the sake of argument, let’s drop this to 100 to allow for any LGBT characters on the list. This means that 12.3 % of the non-LGBT characters on TV were killed off for 2015.
So 12.5 vs 12.3? You can tell the difference between .2 jellybeans? Or is it just a matter that you are more impacted by certain character deaths because of how the character identifies? The “kill your gays” trope appears to be more perception than reality.
Cheers!
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Why is it that the outraged always assumes someone else “doesn’t get it” when they too are not outraged? Maybe the other person just knows the argument is BS. Which I do in this case.
Introducing a Muslim character doesn’t come with responsibility? How well are they represented? You are essentially saying that a showrunner’s creative control over their characters should directly correlate to the overall representation of that character’s sub-group. Ridiculous.
So showrunners who want full creative freedom over their characters should only write straight white men…you can do whatever you want to those characters, right? That is the natural endpoint of your logic here.
Is death not part of the struggle of life…even for the LGBT community? It is not a dramatist’s job to provide you with a safe space, it’s their job to tell a compelling story…and sometimes that involves horrible stuff happening to the characters.
If you relate to a certain character, you relate to their triumphs and their tragedies, sad and tragic though they may be.
I do empathize with everyone, and I don’t consider anyone’s struggles to be of the special snowflake variety. Not a high horse, just the truth. As ostensibly neither straight nor white, you do not have the requisite identification to tell me how I am acting as a straight, white man.
Remember, we are only allowed to have a valid opinion about something if we identify as that something, even if that opinion is perfectly logical and based on facts.
Cheers!
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LOL, the showrunner is not being limited by anyone, but surely one must recognize that his *plot twists* are vastly unoriginal and in many cases, trope-like. Just as he’s free to write whatever storyline he wants that’s approved by the network, audiences are free to react and criticize as they please.
This guy is no Bryan Fuller, or Shonda Rhymes, or Alan Ball, or D&D (of GoT), or Sam Esmail etc and he WILL NEVER get a serious writing laurel for his work on the 100. Know this, and that is precisely because of how limited his writing perspective actually is. He’s not really doing anything groundbreaking at all, and in fact it’s quite the opposite. His handling of minority actors/storylines has been sketchy at best, and the most “subversive” thing he had going for him was the relationship between Clarke & Lexa.
Instead of avoiding her death, or making it epic enough so as to avoid tropes & fans leaving in a mass exodus, he killed her in the most trope-like way possible and then claimed ignorance. That’s just stupid financially, forget about creatively. It’s like he forgot what his show was or that it was on the CW. One would expect a writing professional to have some sort of background in the history of tv, film, tropes and the like, but I guess not this guy.
You don't have to watch the show to see how he obviously miscalculated here and is now paying the piper for it.
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Busy days and yes fortunately got some sleep in there. Anyhow:
1) I think when killing a character writers tend to think about the implications of doing so. This not only from a writing point of view but from multiple angles (ratings and contracts among others). It is one of the reasons main characters rarely get killed off. Asking writers to also take into consideration how it impacts the audience personally wouldn't be a stretch, in my opinion that is. Weighing consequences vs. creative decisions all the time. So thinking about killing a character that represents a minority wouldn't be hard to do.
Media can has a significant amount of influence on the way people are perceived. That comes with a decent amount of power over those minority and as said by uncle Ben 'with power comes responsibility'. I ask writers to take that responsibility and just weigh it. There are LGBT characters of which their death and demise makes for great storytelling, I just see a problem when it is a go to move for writers.
2) I pondered where you went wrong in your calculations here but I found it. (I really hoped you were right btw and that it was in my head). There are more than 4 LGBT characters that have been killed of in 2016 alone. There were 4 deaths in the last month, Rose on Jane the virgin, Kira on the magicians, Lexa on the 100 and Denise on the walking dead. That is 4 in 4 weeks.
A list compiled on auto straddle points to 8 in this year. Also you can not compare that buzzfeed article with the Glaad study because one talks about a calendar year January 2015- December 2015 and the other talks about a television season: middle of 2015- middle of 2016. This means one has double the time to add to their count.
Btw I do believe there is a 2015-2016 Glaad report on their site if you have interest. I believe the count of LBGT characters for the season was 35. I suggest you look at the lesbian/bisexual women because death is more of an issue for them than gay men (they have their own trope problems though).
Finally I appreciate the time you took to look that up and have a decent conversation. It's kind of hard because most people tend to just yell justice warrior and hide.
Have a good one
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Glad to hear you are rested up…
1. Of course they think about the creative and financial implications; that goes without saying. But when you start telling showrunners what they can or cannot do with characters they write because that character may be, or may identify as, X, you are telling them that they no longer really have creative control.
I mentioned this to someone else, but really the ultimate conclusion of that logic is for showrunners only to write straight white males so they can maintain control over their characters. No one really gets outraged or insulted when something happens to those characters.
2. You must have missed when I wrote that I was assuming some amount of consistency from year to year. I can only work with the data I have. So according to the 2015 GLAAD study, the LGBT character number went from 32 to 35. I think it’s fair to say that’s pretty consistent.
Thanks for pointing out the 2015 report though. I will use those numbers now…
The problem with your correction of my math is that the list you used from Autostraddle includes both cable programs and one Australian show. So this means that while the death count might have doubled, we need to also expand the % of representation to include American cable and Australian TV.
The Autostraddle list also only includes 3 deaths on American broadcast television, not four.
I was trying to give the “bury your gays” argument the benefit of the doubt by sticking to network TV because representation is so much higher on cable, but since you opened that door I will walk through it. If we expand to include cable, the % gets cut in half.
According to the 2015 GLAAD study, 2015-2016 cable TV had 84 LGBT series regulars…we will then add in the 35 from broadcast TV. So that is a total of 119 LGBT series regulars. That means with 8 total deaths, that is 6.72% of all LGBT series regulars on American television.
Cheers!
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1) I would never try to tell a writer that he can't write what he want to write, he has free speech and he should be able to. However one can be held responsible for what he says. So while I will support his right to tell the stories he want, I will also say it is my right to hold him responsible for the consequences of it.
As someone said you have the right to bear arms in America, you even have the right to shoot them. However when you kill someone (intentionally) you will have to take responsibility.
2) Fair enough, I did the math myself awhile ago and looked into it but I didn't keep track of the way I did it so I can't say otherwise (I came to 17% then). However your math seems correct so I'm a little stuck, I accept it though. If you are indeed correct than the only reason I can see why it resonates so hard with the community is the way we die.
Thing with this trope is that the manner in which the characters are killed is just as important. (Check out the Hays code, for the origin of this trope, since I actually have faith you would look into that contrary to most people on the internet). It may just be that we are as a community sensitive to the deaths of characters because it is an old wound and we are more primed to it.
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1. Well, all actions have consequences, as do reactions. When showrunners suddenly have to start apologizing and studios have to put up with outrage storms whenever something like this happens, what do you think is going to be the eventual outcome?
To me the most likely culprits would be either abdicating creative control to a small, loud fanbase or simply avoiding the issue by not writing those kinds of characters.
Also I’m going to assume no one is actually equating killing someone in real life with killing on TV, but I get the analogy.
2. But is that a “bury your gays” problem or a “bad storytelling” problem? What did The 100 do that was really any different than what happened to the straight, white, Renee Walker character in the last season of 24?
There are countless examples of questionably written character deaths on TV and the majority of those characters were not LGBT. Most of them were straight and white.
Some of that is because the death of the character often matters less than the effect that death has on the remaining ensemble or on the central protagonist. The death itself is sometimes given far less thought than the drama that comes after.
Also, I think citing the Hays code as a source of something that would have any lingering effect on media over the last 30 years is kind of absurd. Do we need to start listing off examples by decade?
Cheers!
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1) The eventual outcome will be trying to avoid a mess like this agreed, I do want them to think about how they can do justice to a LGBT character. There are multiple shows where I think the killing of a LGBT character was handled well and it didn't make a ripple in the community. So there are ways to do it, they aren't banned from killing the character off. And maybe they will stop writing these kinds of character but I do feel it would be a missed opportunity, (I will speak for my own community and say lesbian here) lesbian community is a really loyal and significant fan base that will tirelessly promote your show.
2) I know we kind of steered away from the numbers debate but auto straddle just released some interesting research on that and specifically looked at what we were talking about (according to them the death rate is 31%).
Well that way of dying is ingrained in the trope, it is part of it so that way of bad storytelling is the bury your gays trope. I did not see 24 so I can not comment on that, I assume she got fridged? Which wouldn't be much different and fridgeing female characters is a whole other troublesome beast that also plays into the agency point.
I do think you need to look at the cause and lingering effect it has. Would black face be acceptable to use in movies, this hasn't been done in years so by that idea it couldn't have a lingering effect?
Have a good one
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1. Sure, but how do you avoid it when you don’t know what is going to outrage an (with all due respect) overly sensitive minority fanbase?
So you creatively walk on glass?
Sure there ARE ways to do it, but who is the arbiter of what is the right way or wrong way? It isn’t the creator anymore in this case – it’s a vocal minority of the fandom.
No matter how you slice it, creative control is either being neutered or removed completely. This is a slippery slope that ends badly for art, for freedom of expression, etc. I understand this is not your position because the skin you have in this particular game is more important to you than creative freedom, but I can’t disagree with this more.
2. I took a look at that and was disappointed by the intellectual dishonesty going on. Autostraddle is moving the goalposts and stacking the deck here to keep the outrage train moving.
The math we were doing is still correct. Autostraddle has shifted from series regulars or major recurring characters in American-based shows to any LGBT character that appears in more than two episodes of ANY show that ever aired in the United States –even foreign shows -- and whose sexuality was part of the character in any way.
Do you realize how broad this is? Remove the LGBT and this same criteria describes 95% of the straight characters on TV. Did the straight guy have a girlfriend? Well then his sexuality is part of his character.
What Autostraddle doesn’t give us is the % of non-LGBT character deaths utilizing the same criteria. Not only would calculating this % probably a HUGE undertaking, but It probably wouldn’t help their argument. But to give the stats for one without any other context and state that this proves something is intellectually dishonest.
What we do know however, based on our math, is when it comes to series regulars, LGBT deaths are much lower than straight ones.
On 24 the character died after professing her love for the lead and having sex with him. Scant moments later, killed by a sniper. I brought this specific example up because it seemed the most relevant.
Are you comparing blackface to “don’t show two people of the same sex kissing”? Do I really need to go into why this is a false equivalency? Also, clearly we’ve very much moved on from the latter. Same-sex kissing, not really much of a content issue these days.
I suppose the question is do you want representation that is statistically reflective on television or do you want ubiquity?
Cheers!
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1) I agree, I think we won't agree on this point, that is fine. I do think hiring a consultant (as already happens a lot) would take care of most issues. Let's agree to disagree on that point.
2) Again, I agree on the autostraddle part thought I'd point you to it and see what you thought. As stated before I accept your math, can't find a wrong point in it so as I concluded it must be an impact factor.
Ah, yes that seems like a relevant example. From that brief description and from what I saw after a little research it does look like a fridging issue. She was used to propel the story forward for the male lead (to go on a revenge craze?). As said that is it's own troublesome trope. To be honest that point can easily be solved by giving female characters more than the 'girlfriend' role and is admittedly getting much, much better.
I was trying to illustrate that the past of issues can't simply be left in the past. (In no way am I condoning black face). However I don think you are moving past the point. The point of the trope wasn't 'don't show them kissing', the point was kill them if they are. Gay people were evil and should die, they should be fixed and locked in asylums. That is what the history of that trope is. Not just 'you can't show it'.
And no I don't have to see myself in every show but I would like to see myself reflected in more shows, maybe get some lead roles. At the moment there are a handful of shows that have representation and not even taking into account the death thing, they don't have the best representation. When the bar is so low that most lesbians are even happy when the character doesn't die that to me is cause to worry about representation.
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Reading this, idk if i want to laugh or just cry...
like first off
This coming after ADC talks, its like Jason went, -ok it might be safe to crawl out of hiding and repeat the words "we would never want to hurt anybody like that. We would never want to hurt our fans"
cause when ADC kept repeating it in every interview it sounded good im going to go with that too, it will show i care.
second thing
"that it’s taken me a while to get perspective on it myself and to put myself in the position of somebody who was hurt like that"
Excuse me but i swear i even heard the devil himself laughing at this going -when hell freezes over...
Cause if you really get it, if you really understood, you would atleast say Im sorry for the pain i caused...u dont go on saying how you hope we will start to put ourselves in your position and get that you just wanted to take us for a ride with something you are so proud of.
Go crawl back into your hiding place and be proud sitting alone in your corner, please.
Third thing:
"More characters that we love are going to die this season and it’s going to happen soon.
Wait, what?
[Laughs] I think that people need to be prepared for that."
That whole thing makes me laugh... we already know who dies, we alrdeady know the story of it... the interviewer acting chocked is such bullshit, cause you do actually check up on all news dont you Jasons lil binch?
And Jason giving away that like it was a spoiler,
excuse me
*rofl*
ok im done rolling, but seriously, he would never give away a spoiler like that, this whole thing is pur bullshit, why didnt you, Jasons lil binch ask him about the bullying and Lincolns death that everyone already knows about instead of playing stupid?
How much did he pay you?
no, really i want to know?
moving on,
4th thing:
"I’m always nervous about it. But I’m looking forward to getting in front of the fans and talking to them and having a real dialogue about this, if that’s something that the fans want. It’s an honor and a privilege, it’s really the greatest privilege of my life—other than being the father of my kids and the husband of my wife"
So to translate this my dear fandom
Jason is saying he is scared shitless, he is reminding us that he has a wife and kids - just incase someone wants him dead.
thats how i read that?
5th thing:
"To be honest, Clarke is experiencing the loss of someone she loved, and you know, this is a show where people don’t just get over things quickly"
Get real, we all know what the writes who did that periscope said... your definistion of her mourning will i guess be til next season where for us it will be like a year and for Clarke three weeks passed and that will be ok time to move on to her soulmate Bells, you know cause clarke was only Lexas soulmate and Lexa was not hers...
what do your ppl smoke Jason?
6th thing:
"So there is a possibility for some kind of moment of resolution for the fans that are just so devastated by this"
well its all bout the city of light but i cant spoil anyting, i cant mention a certain girl name here that might show up in city of light cause she is uploaded into the chip and is in the city of light but ppl might accuse me of qeerbating so i dont want to say who im talking about but ...yeah..
first of Jasshole... its not ACCUSED queerbaiting... just cause you spent a day deleting all your clexa tweets does not make it only ACCUSED queerbaiting and you freaking idiot you YOURSELF invited fans down to see the shooting of the finale... there are vids and photos all over the internet... what the fuckety fuck is up with this being all secretive ?
...seriously, what are you all smoking?
7th thing:
ACCUSED queerbaiting, is a massive slap in our face dude http://wedeservedbetter.com/
and to end this comment of mine... the epic fail that you actually end this interview with begging for a spinoff, who are you begging Jason?
"if the fans want it, and they ask for it and they scream loud enough, maybe they’ll get it"
...what fans?
To my lovely lgbt+ community
read it and refuel
"if we want it, and we ask for it and we scream loud enough, maybe we’ll get it"
BOOM...
no wait, a p.s
Damian Holbrook aka Jasons lil binch, gotta ask you too... dafaq are you smoking?
..Out.
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The disappointing thing about this whole fiasco of poor writing choices and disappointing PR is a guy who still doesn't truly think what he did was wrong. Let's face it this show started very low budget effect wise and had a whole slew of ridiculous plot holes in the first season. But as they learned their footing and people stayed on board they built a very unique little universe that definitely makes you think what if this happened? Going into season 3 I had high hopes because a whole bunch of un-named actors turned a small plotty show into something fun and different with pretty solid performances for the 2 whole minutes of airtime each of them got. yes everyone is at risk at dying, but such a pathetic way is what gets me. I checked official Twitter accounts for spoilers or teasing scenes for the next episode to see you constantly pimping out clexa and imflaming your fan base to choose "bellarke" or "clexa" which i had always felt was irresponsible. Especially, when you went on to reprimand the fans who were bickering and fighting for whomever they chose. I did have faith that this would somehow turn out to be a decent season but between turning the guy you wasted a season turning into a "hero" just to COMPLETELY ruin him in an episode was awful. Then you turn around and callously kill off a character you marketed sooo heavily while giving fans false hope with the open set finale is just too much. This interview doesn't humanize or humble you in my book which I want to believe was your hope and intention. I doubt your a bad guy but who knows. What is 100% for me is that under your leadership a show has gone from something different and worth watching to I won't watch another episode
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^ All of the hyping of Clexa was planned out carefully, and someone on the inside tried to warn us months ago, but we were naive to put our trust into what was said in social media. I'm just... nauseated with the time I've put into promoting this show, staying up to help trend it during the livetrends just because I wanted to show my support to a show that would do justice to something that meant a lot to me, and a lot of people.
The person who did this interview conducted himself terribly on twitter. What a child. Jroth once again has nothing to say that is important. No apology, and I'm not buying into his 'I didn't want to shape the conversation, but wanted to listen' excuse.
You know who did that? Javi. He /did/ that. JR just crawled into some hidey hole. Javi really took the time to acknowledge people's opinions and take it in, not Jason.
Nice to keep Lexa until the sweeps, and invite fans to come visit the finale shooting - you really loved having the LGBT fandom around for as long as they were useful huh?
Ugh. Just triple ugh.
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your pr team must be working their ass off for you jason. and yet you still manage to fuck it up
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Everything about this "interview" is sketchy as heck. Doesn't this interviewer stan Jroth on twitter? Talk about unbiased journalism. And what's with Jroth admitting that he waited before talking? Sounds like he just wanted to make a list of all the VALID points against him so he could fabricate answers that would placate his viewers while still making him look good. I'm not blind, even through a screen I see no sincerity and this whole thing stinks.
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Where's gamergate and their ethics in journalism when you need them, lol.
Probably too busy attacking people like us for daring to think we deserve to be represented with dignity.
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My favorite thing about this entire thing is that it's all supposed to be about the great and original story they are writing when in fact absolutely everything turns out to be Battlestar Galactica 2.0. 13th Tribe anyone? every plot twist, especially this season... It's not original. It's predictable. Pike is doing what Zarek did. ALIE is Six head. Jaha is Gaius. etc etc. If at least the story they were telling was original then great, but it isn't.
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Exactly, i started watching the show cz people told me it reminded them of bsg, and I'm a HUGE BSG fan. I always saw some resemblance, specially common actors on both shows, but then it turned into a complete rip off of an original show, which i can say is my favorite show of all time.
Moreover Lexa was the only original character on the show, that is why she was a fan favorite, cz guess what jason, people like originality.
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Here's hoping someday someone from Variety will interview JR to actually ask him the real questions. This is just a PR thing... and it still bad, people at the CW are really bad with PR huh. But don't worry, JR, your legacy will be to be mentioned whenever a queer character is killed. Congrats!
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It should be noted that Maureen Ryan for Variety has stated on twitter that she will be traveling for a couple of weeks and can't do an interview with Jason, which she said in response to someone asking her if she could. I'm sure he'll do plenty of interviews about this issue in the future.
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Please, go to Damian Holbrook's twitter to see not only how classy he is (not really) and why JR decided to do this interview here of all places.
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Oh, I agree that Jason likely picked this interviewer because he would ask easy questions, but Jason did state in this article that he would speak more about it in the future, such as at Wondercon. The questions he gets asked at Wondercon will be by the fans and audience upset about the death, so I'm sure we'll get a better idea about whether or not Jason has learned much of anything when that time comes.
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Really loved the article! And that it showed an insight into what Jason is thinking of all of this. I'm sure it hasn't been easy for anyone, not the cast, not the writers, not the producers, and especially not the fans who lost a beloved character. But he is right in saying that this is a show where anyone could die. That's basically the mindset with which I start every single episode: anyone can die! You'd have thought more people were used to this notion by now.
I'm also glad he talks about learning from mistakes, with this in mind, hopefully season 4 will be their best one yet! I for one loved this season so far, loved the story they told, especially loved the Ark backstory and I'm truly hoping we will see more of it, and LOVED how everything tied together with the grounders mythology. I've been expecting Lexa's death since season 2, when she told Clarke that when she'll die, her spirit will choose the next Commander. If that was not the biggest hint they could've possibly given us, I don't know what is. So I'm pleased with how they spinned the story. I'll admit I haven't paid enough attention to the social media prior to the episode, and how much they focused on Clexa/Lexa, but in hindsight, they did put too much emphasis on it, and that was their downfall. But hopefully this will teach them how to pursue forward and how to not commit the same mistakes in the future.
This show has become one of my favourite current ones! I'm looking forward to see what else they have in store for us!
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I have to say it is not so much the fact that she died that is the problem. (Although the baiting and insinuation that she would live is really bad since we all lowered our walls and allowed ourselves to believe in their 'she will survive' lie.)
No the problem lies in they way they did it. The community has expressed their worried multiple times to him and the writers and they acknowledged it. Which means they were really negligent in their research. Representing a minority gives you a certain amount of power over them, this means you have a responsibility, they did not own up to that.
Some part of me is sorry for them because I did really like the show and they are getting the pain and anger of years of mistreatment poured over them but enough is enough already. This article does show me they didn't listen at all though because nowhere does he speak of the pain that the timing and way she died brought upon the community.
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But they never once said anyone would be exempt from death. Lexa included! They never once pointed to someone and said "this character will live until the end of the series". So this is what baffles me, that people accuse them of selling lies, when this has never been the case. Did they promote the hell out of them? Yes! But never once in those promos did they say that the characters will live.
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EDIT:
Finn was killed purposefully, because his character violently murdered 18 innocents. That moved plot forward. Lexa died from a stray-bullet. because... plot-wise, she walked into a room where her father-figure was trying to murder the woman she loved, because they loved each other. That'll move plot forward, but it doesn't make how they did it any more harmful to the viewers they promised to keep safe and strung-along KNOWING they were already worried.
Call me when they kill straight lead Bellamy for violently killing 300 innocents.
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If you invite people to watch you shoot the finale and know that Lexa is shooting that day, you know you are crating false illusions. The thing is they knew what they are doing, you don't have to outright say things for people to connect dots and keep their hopes up. Jason even acknowledged this himself in this article.
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I believe that stupid argument "anyone can die in this show" when they kill Bellamy. And trust me, they ain't gonna do that, except until the series finale (not season finale). So this show is dead to me.
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Yes, but that also meant promotion for them as a show, and by that I mean, people/press/paparazzi in Vancouver to see the show, question what it is, talk about it, look it up, start watching, write about it. I saw a lot of people asking the Vancouver based news accounts what show that was when those photos surfaced. The 100 always shoots in remote locations, this was one of the exceptions when they had to shoot aside, so they used it to get the word out about the show too, it was PR based.
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I just saw we have to comment chains going here Andrada, I'll stick to the other one. For the record I do appreciate your thoughts.
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They've never invited fans on the set EXCEPT the day ALYCIA (invitation made on twitter by jason himself), the one EVERYONE kept pleading to him not to kill, was filming the finale with Eliza. Then he himself tweeted pics of her and Eliza on set for the finale. Full well knowing this would calm people's fear about her death. And there were tweets with people terrified she would die, and the responses came with ''stay tuned'', ''have faith''. That is outright manipulation.
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Bellamy is a mass-murder/terrorist but because of his freckles he will be forgiven as soon as he feels a bit bad. Then Clarke will see some sort of 'good' in him and they will get together. Not like we have seen that before.
That's one of the reasons k won't watch the show. I can't watch Clarke get with Bellamy just because he's a cute straight dude. I could have handled before he became a mass-murderer but not now. They kill the lesbian but the mass-murdering straight boy will get the girl. It's gross.
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Is it though (a show were anyone can die)? Yes, they killed Finn but you have to agree that apart from a very small group of fans, nobody really loved him like people love Bellamy, Clarke, Octavia, or yes, Lexa. Apart from him, who has died?
Because from where I am standing, it has always been minor characters, who were only kept around so they can be killed, or big groups of people we gave various amount of shits about (culling (best one), rebels on the stolen dropship, grounder army in the ring of fire, arkers we didn't actually know who died in the fall of the ark, villagers Finn massacred, people of mount weather, arkers in mount weather when it was blown up, grounder army the arkers massacred). You also have to note that these are btw either arkers that were killed by other arkers, or groups of people killed by arkers, never the other way around, with the notable exception of the 60 something arkers inside Mount Weather when it was blown up, but we didn't know them at all.
And if you contrast that with the incredible (one could say, unbelievable) things that the Arkers/protagonists have survived, it becomes even more obvious that no, they do not just kill people off. Jaha fell to earth in a goddamn nuclear missile (as an engineer, that has me really side-eying the show). Jasper survived a spear t the chest (a lot more deathly than a stomach bullet wound btw). Finn survived a poisoned dagger to his chest too. Octavia miraculously survived the explosion in Ton DC. Raven survived DAYS (or at least hours) with a bullet wound very similar to Lexa's, that was lodged in (next) to her spine, and then survived the surgery WITHOUT anesthesia (she should have gone into shock and died from the pain alone) to remove it. Finn and Bellamy survived the ring of fire that somehow killed every grounder around the dropship. They all survived the blood-virus thing the grounders sent them. I could go on.
I don't know, I guess we were naive to think that Lexa was one of the important and well liked characters that get away with everything, probably because that is what has been told to us by Jason and the CW, but I don't think it was something that can be written off as 'people die a lot on this show' when in fact they don't.
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Great interview! Love how humble Jason is in all of his commentary and how he doesn't play it cool. He admitted he had to process the outrage as well.
And yet none of his actions doesn't justify the hate people were giving him.
Hoping they prepped a kick a*s trailer for the con. *_*
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The problem is that there are no other characters like Lexa on TV. Sure, The 100 kills people left and right, but when that happens, you can turn the channel and there's a heterosexual guy still alive and well. What is so terrible about killing Lexa off is that she was the only of her kind; the only strong lesbian character who was out and in a canon relationship. There are very, very few shows one can say that about. There are no other Lexas so to kill her off is a big punch in the face to the LGBT community.
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Nailed it. There is no one like Lexa. They make a big deal of ADC having a guest starring role but they made her equal in status to Clarke as Lexa on the show. The only relevance when saying they kill people all the time and no one is safe, is that so far Lexa is the only person of such prominence to die on the show.
I want them (JRoth, really) to tell me what character other than Clarke has had so much facetime, has had such an in-depth story, has had the stature that Lexa had, has had a full-fledged poignant romance. I then want them to tell me who on the show if killed off now would be the equal of Lexa, in terms of all this?
In the interview he says someone else is going to die soon and he implies it's a major character. Well, I think we may guess it's Lincoln. Now I love Lincoln, but they sidelined him on the show, so any prominence he had was written out.
Who else in this anyone can die scenario might be as important-other than Clarke herself?
Now, I love a lot of the characters-Kane, Abby, Raven, But this ruined the show for me.
The whole thing, the rush job of going from the love scene to the death scene-what was it he expected us to feel over that? Wow, cool, at least she got to have sex first. REALLY??!!! Is this how low the opinion is of us?
I can sit here and name some of the most romantic scenes I have ever witnessed on tv or in the movies and categorically say they all happened on this show. But all of that is eclipsed by the hatchet job of a farewell to one of the two best things this show had going for it-half of a couple. I can't enjoy any of it now.
There is also this idea that Clarke will just soldier on. However, this was not Finn. Clarke saw in Lexa a tortured soul, who endured the death of yet another lesbian(offscreen Costia), a person who showed character in trying to become something more than the sum of what she had been taught. Clarke didn't just love her, she had a responsibility to her. She should in part be haunted not just by the loss of someone she loved, but by someone she may feel she helped bring to such an end. Not saying that's right, but that's how people react. Clarke should be feeling as gutted as we are.
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So, Lexa had to die for the flame plot. Okay. Why did Clarke and Lexa have to become romantic in a show which says it doesn't focus on romance then? And their's had been a beautiful romance, with so much FOCUS and so much HYPE. So much rallying for Clexa to win polls and posting pictures of ADC and Eliza... But the 100 isn't about ships, right? So why even write them romantically in the first place? There was no plot related need for them to be gay for each other. Especially since this show IS NOT ABOUT ROMANCE AND SHIPS.
My guess? And the guess of most people able to follow a thought process without prejudice and an open mind: To QUEERBAIT enough LGBT Fans into watching so that they could get renewed. It was a brilliant and brutal strategy. Cold AF.
I for one would rather have NO REPRESENTATION than be manipulated like that for a scrap of queerness certain people say I should feel GRATEFUL for.
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Yes exactly. It's like saying Lexa and Clarke should have been happy they at least got to have sex. WTF. Really? Oh so it's ok that Lexa died because at least she got to have sex. Yippee.
I too would have rather they hadn't bothered in the first place, seeing it all treated this way. Respect for fans who invested a lot of their heart into this show and had a constant relationship with Jason over it and through it all.
So we should be grateful we got to see this amazing love story unfold, watching Lexa burn for Clarke and watching Clarke try to navigate her own feelings. That it's A-OK to see them happy for an instant and then to have Lexa die right after that.
I'm ecstatic, because that is everything I always wanted in an amazingly well told love story. I was just jumping up and down as she was dying, so happy they at least got to have sex. WOW.
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Yep. Cause it's still 'progressive' and more than other shows do. We should feel so honoured that he'd even bothered to include the romance at all. AND we're gonna get to see Lexa in CoL going all Patrick Swayze on Clarke. If we win the Zimbio poll, JRoth will even edit in Unchained Melody to play in the background.
*Ghost reference incase you were wondering wtf ; D
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Oh yeah fully understood the reference. Ghost is one of my best examples if how I as a lesbian could fully relate to a story that didn't embrace my reality. It something we've done all our lives.
I loved the movie, loved that song well before the movie came out. I cried really hard as he went into the light. Love stories are not just gay or straight but are human. The problem is so very little of what we see involves our stories.
The CoL thing will feel less real just as Ghost involved 2 people who could never really touch again. I so want Clarke and Lexa to touch again, to smile knowing smiles at one another, to share love in a slight glance, a whisper. I so want them both to embrace, fully happy to have at last seen themselves in the other's eyes. A virtual AI presence won't feel real.
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You know what happened, happened... the past is already written. And I understand the reaction was not anticipated. But man can Jason just say he is sorry about all the hearts he broke. For all the misleading... Like can't he acknowledge the pain he caused. I think he owes us that... And the story is not only about her sexuality.. I get that.. She was so much more than that. For me Lexa was the one that gave me strength. The one that showed me that no matter how hard things get you still have to stand up, move on and don't look back. She was what I needed during the time my mother was battling with cancer (thank God mom is all cured now). And that's why I was so exited to see her finally get something for herself. And after just like 5 minutes of seeing her happy she was gone just like that... I feel like I lost a friend, and can't do anything about that... I feel like she helped me and now I can't do the same for her. It's frustrating to feel that for a fictional character.... You can't talk it out, you can't change anything and it makes me both very angry and sad. I wish ADC was never back for S3... I wish I could continue watching the show because it makes for a good story but It's tainted now... I can't allow myself to feel like crap anymore, I have to move on for her.
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yeah, I think Lincoln and Indra will die this season, but as for me the 2 characters who deserve to die this season are Pike and Bellamy. They are the worst characters that cannot be redeemed anymore, but of course Bellamy is the lead male so he will not die-he'll save their people from the city of light with Clarke.
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I hope that Indra doesn't die, but I fear that she will because of her busy schedule. As for Pike, I agree, but I disagree about Bellamy, as I don't want to lose such a good actor as Bob Morley. I just wish the writing for him was better and more fleshed out this season, but that holds true for many storylines.
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I would sort of want him to die for exactly that reason (and because I am growing to despise Bellamy as a person an incredible amount). Bob deserves better than whatever this bullshit they are trying to do with him this season. I would have preferred if they either properly dared to go dark with him, and didn't try to redeem him, or didn't do this at all. It feels half assed and like they were not smart enough to come up with a storyline with him, so they redid season 1, only they added dead girlfriend to the mix too.
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What all of you omit to notice is that the reason those other storylines were handled so poorly was because they were a Clexa afterthought. Everything this season until 3x07 was about Clexa. Everything else seemed to just be thrown in there as a filler.
I adore Bob Morley and I am outraged about how they handled Bellamy this season. Bob and his fans deserve so much better, but hey, who cares, the Clexas are the only ones allowed to feel mistreated now.
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I am sick of people disregarding Bellamy just because hes' a man. That's not how equality works, guys.
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Lol, what are you talking about. Bellamy's character development sucks so much, because they have made him go on a useless BELLARKE fanservice rescue mission after Clarke in episode 2 (and 3 too), instead of actually showing us his mental state and relationship with Gina. If they actually spent that time showing us that he was at a bad place, and struggling, all of his weird going dark bullshit would have been a lot more believable in the first place.
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Oh and additionally the fact that they clearly didn't know what to do with him and Arkadia in the first place. This whole character regression he went through, and the idiotic Pike storyline that is exactly the same that has been played out already in the first part of the last season is the product of the fact that they couldn't come up with anything exciting for them to do, or find them an exciting part in the other two big stories (Polis/AI) so they pulled something that has worked before but were too lazy to even set it up properly with a proper conflict.
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Wow. You have the nerve to call Bellarke on fanservice and yet still be upset about how Jason "baited" you with Clexa? Yeah that was not fanservice at all.
The first three episodes were actually the only episodes this season when Bellamy actually acted IN character, but sure. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
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I have not said that clexa was not fanservice, it obviously was in a way, since they weren't even sure if Lexa as a character will click with the audience in season 2 yet, so they obviously went with the decision based on the response they got from the fans in season 3. Any showrunner who says fan reactions don't influence their story is a blatant liar.
The difference is that clexa was a fanservice that made sense with both Clarke and Lexa as characters and as a story, Bellamy's lil Die Hard commando mission didn't. I disagree that he was in character in any of those episodes, or any of the episodes of season 3 for the matter, what I am saying that sending him after Clarke was a huge waste of time for everybody.
We already knew he cared about Clarke. People who think it's romantic already though it was, people who don't still don't. Nothing new shown there. We already knew Bellamy is brave. No need to show us that. He didn't actually manage to survive Clarke, so that way, the story hasn't moved forward. Clarke got to Lexa, with Roan's "help" anyway. And the injury he sustained was actually miraculously healed by next episode, so no development in the story that way either. So what did we learn from that entire episode of Bellamy running after Clarke? Big fat nothing.
And in contrast to that, if we showed him with Gina, her loss, and the effect of that on him, in the next episode would have been more believable. If they showed him struggling with the death of the 300 people he partook in, his guilt, his suffering leading up to the massacre would have actually made it a lot more real.
What we have instead, is him running around with a gun, even though he is supposed to be guilty over killing people, running after a woman he is supposed to be angry at, and mourning a woman he is supposed to be in love with, but didn't spend more than 3 minutes of screentime with. Him living in peace with the grounders for 3 months, and then suddenly deciding to massacre them in their sleep and attack their unprotected village, because he is supposed to be guilty for causing the death of innocent people.
Fanservice is a part of every TV show, especially in our days, because writers interact with fans a lot, and are undoubtedly influenced. But Bellamy going after Clarke was an example of useless fanservice, a waste of time, and the reason why one of the three major storylines of this season has actually failed even before this whole shitstorm started.
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I don't know what's worse. The fact that they keep using the same trope, or the act that they ALWAYS give us the same excuses for doing so.
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And yes, btw, we all understand that Alycia had to go. But let's say that you are driving towards a crater in the road. Your GPS tell you you should turn. People sitting in your car are warning you to be careful. As yu drive on, you see it approaching, getting closer. You drive into it because you think you are a good enough driver to handle, and your wheel breaks off, and you have an accident. Whose fault is that? Are the people in the car not right to be angry with you, if they repeatedly told you not to drive into the fucking crater. Does it help that you say 'I was pretending to be in world where the crater doesn't exist". That's bullshit.
Ever since clexa kissed in season 2, every single tweet he made, half of the comments were people begging him not to kill Lexa. Javi admitted they were aware of the trope in question, they just thought that their writing will be good enough to twist it.
Jason should have the spine to own up to this, and say it was a mistake, and it was a shitty decision to make and it is not justified by 'that is the story we are telling'. Or it is, but then you have to be ready for a bunch of people to tell you that that story sucks.
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I can't blame anyone for a calculated step into this discussion. I think it's worth mentioning that emphasis still needs to be fairly placed on the promotion leading up to and throughout the season, I think this is where the damage really laid the groundwork. Her dying and how she died was part of the SL that as he says he didn't realise would be so traumatic for a lot of fans. If the promotion therefore had been handled more appropriately we wouldn't have had such a painful reaction. A detailed conversation about it all, perhaps including fans, at the end of the season, I think would be a really important step in the right direction.
Personally I'd like a spinoff of the grounder world... with Lexa in it! But since ADC can't do it, maybe it's Lexas fraternal twin simulated sister surviving in the grounder world reincarnated who may not look like her but is just like her... man, I'd do anything to get that character breathing again, anything 😂
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I agree with everything you said. I actually think that the interviewer here is slightly to blame for not asking questions pertaining specifically to how Lexa died and the promotion leading up to and through the season. Thankfully, I do believe that Jason is slowly learning, and I hope that he's sincere about having a detailed conversation at the end of the season and during Wondercon. My personal hope is that ADC's character is FTWD is done justice, because I think some of the migrating fans from the 100 will be in for a rude awakening when they see that her character is nothing like Lexa, unfortunately.
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👍🏼 the interviewer was prob used for this purpose, they contrived it together... but some of this is business, and it has to be when we're also talking money, careers and jobs, he has to wade into this carefully b4 getting to the nitty gritty eventually because the rest of this is about fans & how they, & representation, matter. Personally I think there may be even more to be upset about by the end of season 😂 so he needs to save the apology till it reaches the height of disappointment for fans, or he'll be sorry then hurt everyone again, then sorry again 😂
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And yes FTWD different show, diff character. I'm liking it though.
Lexa is gone she's not in FTWD. I wonder who could be Lexas fraternal twin simulated sister? 😂
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I also really like the show so far. While I don't exactly love ADC's character at the moment, I do feel as though it's a good basis for development into a stronger character as the show goes on, as long as they don't kill her off. BTW, I would love a spinoff with a character just like Lexa. I'm just hoping that they don't go away from Polis now that she's dead, as that aspect of the show is absolutely riveting. As for your comment below, I agree completely with everything you say.
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Putting aside the whole social aspect of it (which he still doesn't get by the way)...
From a business standpoint, killing Lexa was THE most idiotic move they could have made. There was no buzz before she came along and their lead character was revealed to be bisexual, I had no idea this show even existed till I started seeing Tumblr explode with gifs of that girl with the mega raccoon eyeliner and all those articles praising them for being so subversive. She was pretty much iconic to the show, and has become iconic beyond it. She wasn't just the fan favorite, she was THE favorite. Not to mention there has never, EVER, been a character like Lexa. She was completely unique. Kill all the Finns and Bellamys, you'll find another in literally every other show. But Lexa is now extinct. And all that potential is gone. I'm baffled that they didn't realize the gravity of just how beloved she is, just how essential she is, just how much story potential she had, so much so that they closed the door completely for her to return. It's stupid. Literally the ONE thing they had to do was write her off alive and NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING. Even if she could only ever appear again in the SERIES finale, people would still be happy.
Seriously though, there were so many other paths they could have taken to reach the same plot point/reveal without her death. Death was the quickest and easiest way for them to get to the "shocking"/"mind-blowing" reveal. It's lazy writing, it's like they didn't even try - they were too tunnel visioned on that reveal. Don't tell me she NEEDED to die, it's a fucking science fiction show, if they can have Jaha ride a god damn rocket to Earth and have all this black blood business, then they can write their way around her death too. They were already leading to some sort of grounder uprising against her, why couldn't she have faked her death, banishment, coma, gone into hiding, forced or not, maybe Ontari steals it etc, etc, etc - all involving the removal of the chip. The fact that people struggle to think of ways besides death is proof that literally ANYTHING ELSE would have been more shocking then just killing her quick and easy for the reveal like that.
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You nailed it! Lexa is THE FAVORITE! Let's put that in all tHE 100 writers head, I will be happy even an episode of her in the whole season as long as she's alive, fucking lazy plot writing! They could have wrote a better plot with Lexa alive, If they only knew that Lexa is THE FAVORITE character on this show.
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I agree. I thought they wouldn't kill her off because it was obvious it would be a terrible decision from a business point of view, but I guess Jason thought his idea about the AI was so brilliant he was absolutely blindsided. Now no one is talking about the AI and probably no one cares. I'm stunned they didn't see the backlash coming because it was as predictable as Lexa dying. Here's an idea, write Lexa off and if you absolutely cannot bring ADC back for more than a couple of episodes, bring her back for the series finale and have Clexa have the happy ending. You just wrote your name in TV history for your groundbreaking happy ending for the bisexual lead and her lesbian love interest. It's not that difficult.
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Who is still around to watch it?
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I'm gay and I completely do not understand the outrage over this fictional death.
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Gay men don't die like lesbians do. The endless microaggressions have worn us down to the point of rage.
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Well, I'm bisexual and I feel the same way. This show has proven time and again that race, gender, sexuality don't matter. It's shown that anyone can die at any minute, it literally predicted Lexa's death back in season 2. So in this one instant, no, I don't think it was about shock value or anything of the sorts, her death will actually further advance the plot of this show. If people only watched for a ship, then they never got the memo that The 100 was never about ships.
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That is actually part of the problem, her death wasn't about her, it was about the AI. It invalidated her as a character.
Also you bring up the point about ships and people dying all the time. Valid point if it wasn't for Jason and the writers knowingly hyping the fan base and raising expectations. They knew people speculated about Lexa dying and took to twitter etc. to ease peoples minds and tell them not to worry. They even invited people to come to set for the final where ADC was shooting scenes. We all kept our walls up for a long time and only allowed ourselves to hope for her survival when they actively encouraged and reassured us, to me that is just plain wrong.
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If it wasn't about ships then why did Jason put some much effort into hyping Clexa up? Basically every show is about ships - the relationships and character interactions, romantic or otherwise, are why people watch them. They are what people get invested in.
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But she was part of it! She was the most important piece of the puzzle actually, without her, none of this could have happened, nor what the show will further tell. It told her story and her backstory, shaped her better than any other regular character (I might add) on this show, so I'll have to disagree on that matter.
But yes, I did admit to not paying close attention to the social media, I did however notice the hype, but never that it gave the security of characters surviving. But that's just probably something I have ingrained in my mind.
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Yeah, he did hype them up and that was his downfall, he should've just stayed quiet about the whole thing. Maybe that would've been better, who knows. But you have to admit Clexa/Lexa was a major part of 3A, so it's only natural they'd promote it/her.
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I'll agree to disagree on that point, that is fine.
They are just getting all the anger of years of mistreatment poured over them. Is it entirely fair? No, but the line has to be drawn somewhere and it has been crossed. Badly. with so little LGBT characters we are sick of them getting killed, 142 killed vs. 29 happy endings is ridiculous and it needs changing.
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He told people Lexa wasn't going to die. The second he brought a lesbian character in, people started asking him about it because we all know how that kind of character usually ends up, and he told people to have hope and to not worry. He let queer kids get invested in her because he told them she wouldn't go out like that. And then he did it anyway. That is why he's getting so much grief for it. He took advantage of a completely underrepresented minority and he baited kids who already have enough emotional garbage to deal with without watching themselves being killed in the most predictable fashion possible yet again. Shot by the disapproving father figure. This entire thing is trash.
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I agree that we need more queer characters on tv. Scratch that, we need to have queer characters in equal amounts, and make their relationships as equal as the hetero ones. That's what needs to be changed and in ALL the shows! The 100 is now taking the blunt for all the other that have failed in this respect, when to be fair, it's been doing fairly decent in terms of gender/race/sexuality, so I don't think it deserves the hate it's getting, nor people wishing for cancellation and boycotting it. If you don't like something, stop watching it, but don't ruin it for everyone else who still enjoys it.
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I'm sorry, but I haven't seen any proof of that anywhere around. If you show me the articles and the sources, I'll be happy to retract my comments.
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They were happy to declare themselves the champions of representation, bask in the positive media attention and tell everyone they were going to be different. This backlash is the result of being lulled into a false sense of security by deliberate behind the scenes releases and reassurances from the crew, while they were planning to rehash a fourteen year old Buffy scene.
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Speaking as someone who is part of the movement. We do not wish cancellation, it is just that we gave up supporting the show, which pains me because I like the world. It is just hard for me to support a show that hurt me and a lot within my community so much.
This incident reminded me of why I never put trust in any show and it has taken my trust for a really long time. It may seem like an overreaction but it is hard when you only see yourself die over and over again. I feel like I need to protect myself and speak up, that is what I'm doing now. I like the actors so I wish them the best and will support them in other projects but I can't in good conscious keep supporting the show.
I saw your request for articles I feel like this article explains most of what happened (it has a couple of links to other articles as well that I feel are very good). http://variety.com/2016/tv/opinion/the-100-lexa-jason-rothenberg-1201729110/
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leave this here. It explains everything in detail.
http://www.wedeservedbetter.com/
My personal favorite attached 🙂
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@Nick and Andrada, saying "I am queer but I don't feel the same way" isn't exactly helpful to the situation. It is very similar to saying "I am Asian/Black but I don't find this joke racist" in support of a something that already proven to hurt/offend many people in the minority group. Some people in the community don't feel the same way, but MANY do. And let's listen and show compassion to them, instead of invalidating their feelings and reactions comparing with your own. Please be aware that other factors can contribute to the emotional trauma and ire caused by this event. Firstly, a large part of the 100 fanbase consists of very young audience who are still in a more impressionable state - the time when they are much more inclined to face stressful family situations and struggles upon identities. Because real life events/surroundings can be isolating and traumatizing, many turn into fictional characters and TV not only for entertainment purposes like you, but to feel "people like me exist and have a chance to live like everybody else", even though their current life doesn't seem to provide them a chance. It's similar to how people tune into Olympics sports game and want to feel proud for their country's team - even though they can know little about the sports that they are actually watching. Imagine, you are from a country that never get into the semi-final/final game. And this one time out of 50 years, an athlete from your country gets a chance to fight for that glory. She/he went into the game, scored brilliantly and get applause from the crowds, but in the next 60 seconds, only end up getting an unfair foul and left the game abruptly . How would you feel at that moment? To the queer women community, Lexa was like that heroine. A beacon of hope that "it's their turn" to witness people from their community having a chance like other straight, white male heroes, in a world that only write 0.6% of TV characters as queer women and 40% of them often die in often brutal, senseless and meaningless deaths. I am typing all these words in attempt to build empathy from you in viewing other people's reactions. Maybe TV is only something that you turn to when you feel bored. To answer your question, yes, some of them do watch the show not "for the show/plots", but don't blame them for it. For many, TV is a manifest of the real world in which people build perceptions of selves - who they are, what their future can look like and how the world sees them. As this world is moving forward and many members of our community can thrive in a more progressive environment - finding a great partner, a supportive group of friends, friendly work environment that doesn't discriminate your skills over your sexuality, please don't forget that many people still yet achieved that sort of privileges in most of the places in the world. "When in doubts, look to compassion" - an adult queer woman who stands 100% with this movement because we really do deserve better.
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Check the LGBTfansdeservebetter website - I think they have most of it there. It should be noted though that certain tweets have been deleted by the writers because they know what they did and they don't want the evidence sitting there anymore.
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Yes, but sadly it is also associated with the CANCEL THE 100 movement. Thanks for the article, I'll definitely check it out tonight!
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It's actually wedeservedbetter .com
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*Spoiler alert*
They invited fans to watch the filming of the finale. They tweeted pictures of Clarke and Lexa filming and behind the scenes. Of course, now we know that's just the city of light consciousness back-up, but at the time it was taken for what it appeared to be; confirmation that Lexa wasn't going to be unceremoniously killed. twitter.com/JRothenbergTV/status/ 694915805285191680
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That was a fringe of the movement, we tried to stop them but they went ahead. There was reason that trend didn't fully take of and it was because most of us didn't support it. I admit that was not a good look on our part but I think it's important to know we didn't support it. (It's kind of hard when people are angry and hurt and it is a big internet thing)
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I'm sorry, stop boycotting it? So people should carry on watching something they don't like because...why, exactly?
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I did not invalidate anyone's feelings, so I do expect the same in return. The only reason I even mentioned my sexuality was because the person who replied to Nick mentioned gay men. So if my feelings are not the same as other people's and they end up hurting them, but their feelings are doing the exact same thing to me, where does that lead us? Point is, I don't think at any time I disrespected anyone by stating what I did. And I mentioned that I understand why people are upset and why this has caused such an uproar, but at the same time I can't support them in their hateful comments, threats towards the showrunners/cast/writers, wishes to cancel the show, and false assumptions as to what this show is. This show is much bigger than a character, than a relationship, the only other show that strikes to mind when I think of it, it's BSG. BSG tackled so many political and social issues, The 100 is doing the same. But like I said, I watch this show for different reasons, the main one being the plot and all the issues that it tackles, but if other people watched for a character, or a relationship, then I understand why they wouldn't want to watch it anymore. Just please, don't drag the rest of us with you, we still want to watch, and we still want this show to continue.
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No, stop watching without trending CANCEL THE 100. Do whatever you want, watch, or not, but campaigning for a show to get canceled, and the hundreds of people working on it to lose their jobs, is not really the progressive movement you seem to demand in return. If something is causing you pain, and you don't like it anymore, you detach yourself from it, you don't make it your sole purpose to ruin it, you'll only end up making yourself more miserable in return!
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he retweeted that. Something saying the young LGBT girls could see Lexa as symbol of hope and a hero. The he kills with a stray bullets. So that symbol of hope just died alone with Lexa.
He held himself as such a visionary but he's the weasliest form of asswipe their ever was.
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I suppose you've got a handy list of shows I can watch instead? Ones where I'm represented that won't cause me pain?
Of course, that's assuming I want the 100 cancelled. Which I don't. I have nothing but respect for many of the actors and the crew. Particular respect must be given to Kim Shumway, Layne Morgan and Javier Grillo-Marxuach. Morgan and Shumway both actually engaged with the upset fans following 307. Grillo-Marxuach, the writer of the episode, also gets my respect for, while first defending his work, actually listening to the fans and changing his stance on the issue once confronted with the damage it had caused instead of blindly insisting he did nothing wrong. He also, unlike Jason, seems to understand that a trope is a trope whether it is consciously invoked or not. He's pledging to take the lessons he's learned over to the Xena reboot he's helming, and I can only hope that he does. (Incidentally, given that season 3 has wrapped and season 4 has not yet begun nobody has a job on the 100 right now.) I won't pretend that I wouldn't like to see Jason fired, because until something drastic happens I don't know when I'm going to be able to turn on the TV and not see something like this.
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They NEVER said not to worry. They did NOT actively encourage or reassure anyone. They were literally doing exactly what he says: celebrating the character and what they thought was a good story. Were they wrong? HELL YEAH. But what was taken as encouragement and reassurance was NOT actually either.
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He did NOT tell ANYONE that Lexa wasn't going to die. ANY television producer is going to say to have hope for a relationship or a character as long as that character is on screen. It's a part of the "no spoilers" policy. He was NEVER going to outright say that this character was going to die. Nor should he. He wouldn't do it for any other character. And no one would expect him to! He did NOT say to not worry. He did NOT say she would not go out like that. Believe it or not, he's actually NOT responsible for people reading more into what he said than what was actually there.
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They invited people to watch them film scenes of the finale the day Alyica was filming. They shared pictures from that day on social media. They created deliberately created the impression that, at the very least, she'd live until then.
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However, he DID tell us to trust him when we voiced our fears that this trope would happen once again, he DID tell us we were reading too far into things when we were afraid Lexa would die. Spoilers or not, those are things he should not have done. Don't reply to people; that way there's nothing to go off of, good or bad, simple as that. What he did was cruel, honestly, and he knew exactly what he was doing. No human being is that dense, especially not an established writer. People defending him need to pull their heads out of their asses and listen to us. If you're straight, you cannot speak on this issue unless you're highly educated on the matter (i.e., you have a queer person close to you and you're relaying what they've shared with you). If you're straight, you cannot EVER know what this is is like. If you don't have all of the facts (which you obviously don't), you have no right to tell people that they're wrong. We all expected Lexa's death, every last one of us, as soon as we found out she was gay. It's Rothenberg who convinced us that this would be different specifically to keep us watching, all the way up to this interview, where he is AGAIN attempting to give the false hope that Lexa's consciousness will exist in another character (spoiler alert via the people who saw the finale being filmed: it's a lie. Lexa is gone for good) just to try to gain viewers back. It's pathetic and sick.
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Hi Elshit. So now that he killed Lexa he is not a shitty showrunner you claimed he was about 3 weeks ago? Wow, I hope hypocrisy tastes sweet.
Also, we have plenty of proof http://wedeservedbetter.com/ Not that you will actually read it
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wedeservedbetter(.)com
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wedeservedbetter(.)com/
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Honey, this show is a product. A product that has offended tens of thousands of us. Why should we keep silent, so a few hundred people, who btw already have a season 4, can "keep their jobs"? It's a product that we no longer wish to support. Why should we support a product that clearly disregards people like us?
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That's bullshit and you know it. YES, they were invited to watch them film scenes of the finale, but I'm betting that they never thought anyone would be so naive about a post-apocalyptic universe as to believe that meant she'd live till the finale. ESPECIALLY when the following week an episode aired that showed canonically that people could DIE and still "live" in the City of Light. I mean, there has literally only been ONE shocking thing that has happened plot-wise this season so far and that was NOT Lexa's death. The ONLY thing that has been unpredictable since day one of this season was the fact that everyone in the mountain got killed AGAIN. Everything else has been heavily foreshadowed.
Were people invited to the filming of the finale to try to get them to stick around till the end of the season? OF COURSE. But it was NOT to try to convince people that Lexa was still alive. It was merely to show that she was THERE. It was so damn obvious and yet everyone who is now up in arms so WANTED to believe that she'd be there till the end that they CHOSE to be naive rather than read the writing on the wall.
MANY of us tried to warn people of what was going on. Why? BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN THERE. We've been baited before! And what thanks did we get for trying to tell people to be careful how much hope they put into this character and this relationship? We got called homophobes!
So no, I'm sorry for what happened. It was shitty writing and I hate that real people were hurt, but you do NOT get to say that this came out of nowhere and that you were all innocent victims here.
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Been there. Read that. Saw every last one of those tweets when they were initially published on twitter. And you know what? NOT A SINGLE ONE PROMISES ANYTHING.
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F@& off elshit. You were at his throat when clexa was happening and taking about how he is a shitty showrunner, and how you will avoid his stuff from now on, and now that he killed the lesbian off, you are defending him? Crawl back into your unprofessional biased hole and at least learn when you are being a blatant homophobe, not just an annoying cunt
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Did you see the link I posted earlier? If you didn't I suggest you look at it.
One highlight: someone asked him if there was hope for Clexa, he responded with always.
This was an ask he didn't have to answer. He could've just ignored rumors, it isn't hard showrunners do it all the time. That is PR, answering reassuringly to questions you didn't need to respond to, that is baiting in my opinion.
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One does not have to literally say something in order to imply it and know the consequences. However you seem angry and well it would be hard to have a conversation when you seem to have already made up your mind.
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I was about halfway through an answer who I realised who you were, and realised it was pointless because you don't listen to reason. You definitely don't have any grounds to be talking about obvious interpretations when you stillcan't get your head around what happened at mt weather without twisting it into a Lexa-is-evil narrative.
You got called a homophobe because you sure as hell acted homophobic on that tumblr of yours from the moment Clexa became canon. Because you didn't do it in a way that was "be careful of the queerbaiting" way, you did it in a "bellarke is ENDGAME and lexa probably drugged clarke" way.
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I'm sorry, so because "you and thousands of others" got offended and got their feelings hurt, people should lose their jobs? Do you hear how unreal this sounds? Or is it just me? Honey, no one's making you watch it if you don't want to watch it anymore, but why would you waste your time trending "CANCEL THE 100" and trying to get it off the air? Oh, that's because you don't care if "a few hundred people" lose their jobs, since your poor feelings got hurt. Got it!
You ask for equality, ask to be treated in a way you yourself don't bother to treat others. What gives you the right to be above everyone else? Equality starts at home! Being a demanding schmuck won't help anyone on the long run, it will only sink what others have worked so hard to achieve. You're not doing the LGBT community any favours here, you're not making people see that they should see us as equals too, you're taking us back decades!
And while we're at it, where's the backlash against The Walking Dead for killing Denise? Oh, that's right, she doesn't count in the grand scheme of things...
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This is not about my feelings being hurt. I am an adult, if I don't like a show, I don't watch it. But this whole thing is a lot more than about the 100 or Lexa. We have been treated like shit for decades (centuries, but anyway). Every single time, the same thing happens: we get hurt, we get bullied, and when we speak up, we are told that we make people uncomfortable and that we are needlessly political, and we are taking things too seriously. I for one think that trending shit like cancel the 100 is stupid, because it's counterproductive and while it won't actually cancel the show, it paints us in a not very favorable light, but you know what, yes. People SHOULD answer for hurting our feelings and being a part of something that causes a lot of people, young people, that are already in a vulnerable position, pain needlessly. Nothing will ever change if we don't don't actually stand up for ourselves.
And btw, what happened here, is that we got organised, collected over 65 thousand dollars in charity, wrote 648392 calm and polite articles about why and how we have been hurt, and how this is a system that can't and shouldn't be kept up, we have started an actual movement to stop the mistreatment of LGBT characters, and then entitled d#cks come in, and tell us that we are being the bullies and the unreasonable ones here, because they personally weren't hurt by what happened, and how we should treat straight people, who took part in hurting us, better. They come in and ignore the incredibly positive and btw, very graceful behavior of the whole fandom, because a few thousand angry KIDS trended Cancel the 100 on twitter.
Oh, and don't get me wrong, I do think we need to be polite, and we do need to be respectful, but until we actually make sure, that hurting us has consequences, nothing ever will change, and the future version of you and I will have the exact same conversation in 50 years. If you wait for people that hold power over you to give it to you, just because of their good heart, it's not going to happen. If we keep supporting people and products that shit on us, those people and products will have no reason to change their behavior.
And what about Denise? She has been brought up many times over since it happened, but the walking dead is not guilty of the shameless queerbaiting the 100 is. They didn't make people feel like that their show is a safe heaven where they are understood. While her death is shitty and stupid, the consequences surrounding it are really not as bad as they were for Lexa's.
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So he didn't intend to hurt us. Well the hurt is real. This ruined the show for me. Ruined everything I enjoyed about it. It ruined all of those bittersweet moments between Lexa and Clarke. I can't even watch anything dealing with the show because all I can remember is Clarke saying, "I want you." And that was what the fans you teased, you baited were about. Love.
Just as an accidental stray bullet can kill, so too can accidental promotion of a trope do real harm. Even had this not followed the trope obvious is obvious. You Jason, you knew the fandom loved Clarke and Lexa together. Anyone with a heart would realize how hard real people would take this.
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So Jason addressed the problem of the 'hype' leading up to the episode that's fine. But still doesn't seem to get the problem in the story itself, the 'unforunate' storytelling of having a love and death scene back to back and the stupid stray bullet. Also claiming him not talking on twitter was an attempt at being sensitive is ridiculous look at what Javier the writer did he invited people to air there grievances with him which was extremely well done on his part.
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Yes and Javi answered tweets as well. He even indicated a divide between himself and the decisions that were ultimately made. Other writers have as well.
He promoted the idea that Lexa was alive even when he knew she'd already been killed. He actively encouraged gay fans (remember the target audience for this show was teens) to hype the Clexa "ship". He created a fervor and by so doing baited this captive audience.
People asked about Lexa dying, because that is always the fear when there's a gay love story, and he indicated she would live. Cruel.
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what would make you all happy ? What do you want Jason to do ? I don't think anything he does will satisfy the people that are angry. You can call names, you can yell and get nasty. The people that are pissed off, will stay that way no matter what. Lexa is dead, nothing will bring her back. ADC is on another show. This show is about survival. everyone wants to be treated as an equal. No one is safe. But when a LBGT character dies , you claim, its unfair, no one pitched a fit when Finn died ! Why , Because he was a straight white male.. What thats okay ? He was even a lead character ! NOT a guest star like ADC ... You want equal treatment.. this is equal treatment, just because a character is gay does make them an exception. People should not have to walk on egg shells to a certain group to produce a tv show.
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Clearly you aren't a part of the LGBT community nor do you know anyone from our community because when you are a minority you get crapped on everywhere and to see it play out onscreen 146 times is brutal. Before you get all high and mighty I'm white and I hate it when POC characters are marginalized and/or killed and was upset when they killed Wells in season 1. I should've stopped watching then but I didn't and learned my lesson.
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when i came out to my parents, my dad said i was no longer his daughter and he never wanted to see me again, and my mom who was my best friend, the second i told her, i lost that.
how embarressed they were, what would their friends think? was amongst the things they said.
Now as a teenager to go through someting like that... and even if you havent come out yet, the fact that you just dont know who to talk to about it, cause you dont know - will they hate me?
most of us only have/had chars on tv, someone to relate to, a place we felt normal..and every single one just kept getting killed off, pretty much after they find happiness, and having Lexa on tv, she being gay and such a freaking awesome powerful woman, a favorite all over the world... the writers and producers promising for over a year that they would be different, groundbreaking with lgbt representation... well a year full of promises makes our community trust you, you have us wrapped around yr lil finger, you become our safe haven, i loved the fact that people could watch Lexa and Clarke and the response was so great, that maybe people would see how beautiful our love is, that maybe those "friends" my parents worried about would see how normal and beautiful we were too, maybe somewhere when a teen comes out, it wont be met by hate,.. thats what good representation stands for, thats what is important to us.
dont freaking make promises and assure us and give us so much hope only to have Lexas father figure try to kill the girl she loves cause he dissaproves...
what message does that send to teh world?
over and over again?
and it was all just playing with us for ratings.
and guess what, it HURT
so please before you come here and judge us like that, atleast try to understand that THIS is not about ADC
its so much bigger, its about people with real feelings
take your time to understand us, not mock us
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Honestly, there has been 8593 articles explaining what exactly the problem is, and clearly, you haven't taken your time to read a single one of them. I invite you to read lgbtfansdeservebetter.com although I do not have very high hopes that you will.
Also, do not make me laugh. The only people apart from Finn, who was killed because the audience didn't really like him were people that only had names so we would care if they died, and nameless masses.
B)You people keep using 'guest star' like it explains anything, but it really doesn't. Lincoln and Raven were both guest stars in season 1, and that doesn't mean anything. Murphy was a guest star until now. Guest star is a term for a type of contract, which means that she is not ties to the show (like she is to FTWD).
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Nobody pitched a fit when Finn faced justice for the coldblooded murder of 18 people (apart from all the people who totally did exactly that). Finn didn't get accidentally murdered by his father figure because he disapproved of a relationship, and didn't, after being shown to be one of the most capable warriors on the show, walk blindly into a room that he'd heard gunfire in just after having sex because he had to die a stupid, contrived death. His death didn't recreate a 14 year old scene from Buffy.
There have been 29 lesbian or bisexual TV characters who have gotten a happy resolution to their stories. On a grand total of 15 TV shows. 146 lesbian and bisexual women have been killed. Don't try and pretend there's equality.
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I have very little interest in getting her back, I would've even be fine if they killed her under different circumstances. Yet they didn't and they refuse to take the responsibility they got when they decided to represent a minority.
Also the impact of killing a minority character is bigger than killing a straight white male. If you have 3 LGBT characters and you have 80 straight while males and you kill one of both, surely you have to agree that the impact of the LGBT character dying is a lot bigger?
I want writers and showrunners to be aware of this and think about the impact they have when they write a minority. They have to take things into consideration more maybe even hire consultants (it happens a lot in tv and film). Watching a version of myself die 4 times in the last 4 weeks was painful especially when you have only 27 other characters to look at.
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Oh please, Jason. You knew all along what you were doing. The heavy Clexa promotion didn't just happen by accident. It was all done deliberately to bait these poor Clexa shipping souls into promoting your show. And it worked, because they were naive enough to actually believe Lexa would survive and get to be happy.
Yes, Jason is a hypocritical douche who created those monsters and then cried wolf, but seriously I can't get past the fact that Clexa shippers believed for a second that this story had a happy ending. I saw Lexa's death coming from a mile away. Several weeks ago I posted somewhere that I was positive Lexa would bite the dust as soon as they hooked up. I mean, it was all so blatant and clear that I cannot wrap my head around people who did not see it coming.
When did The 100 ever promise you relationships and rainbows? Get real people. You were only queerbaited, because you enoyed it and you let him do it to you. Had your eyes and minds been open, you would've seen through Jason's Clexa hype like I did.
And now you people demand apology? FOR WHAT? For having a character die on a show where literally hundreds of other characters and tens of other main characters were already killed? Please. Stop acting like spoiled little brats and either keep enjoying the show or get the hell out of the fandom and stop spoiling it for the rest of us.
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How many times do people have to say it is not about her death but about how she died and when? Lexa's death was the most predictable thing ever. I for one thought the show was smarter than this but hey... it is still a CW show with this guy as showrunner.
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FOR WHAT? You sort of answered your own question in fact. The fact that you pointed out the heavy queerbaiting meant that he should at least address on mishandling marketing strategy targeting on a very sensitive and impressionable marginalized social group (as many of the fans are very young). A line does exist between manipulation and marketing, and they crossed it. Now it's time they should formally and respectfully deal with the people who feel offended by it. This event is not only about TV characters anymore, it involved business decisions and PR responses made in real life as well. It's beyond showbiz. You like the show and it's great for you because it is continuing. Congrats, But please show some compassion to a group of people, who you have very limited understanding of, who are have felt used, manipulated and hurt. A group of "spoiled little brats" of people who get 0.6% of representation on TV and 40% of them would end in senseless, random, inglorious death. People are shouting out of hurt and anxiety, depression triggered by a decision made by the show and their team, sorry that it disturbed your peaceful TV watching session.
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Hey, do you think it was fun to watch this whole baiting thing from the sidelines for someone who wasn't on the Lexa/Clexa bandwagon? It was awful. As a fan, I felt completely ignored by the showrunners, as every promo, interview and tweet was about Lexa/Clexa. I wanted to see my favorite characters but I didn't. I wanted my favorite characters to be given decent storylines this season, but they weren't, all just to make room for Clexa's sappy romantic scenes. I was SICK of it. But you guys enjoyed the hell out of it while it lasted and told the rest of us to shut up when we raised our voices about being tired of the Clexa hype.
You people are actually hypocrites too. you liked the queerbaiting A LOT when it lasted, but the moment something went not the way you wanted you suddenly don't like it anymore?
If Lexa's death was so predictable for everyone and you guys knew she'd die, why did you fall for it in the first place?
I agree it was all just a bunch of stupid PR decisions, because Jason has basically been disregarding the only people who could back him up now - the non-Clexa shippers - all season long, while he served a fandom whose favorite character would die anyway.
I have limited understanding? You people never took a moment to try to understand how non Clexa shippers felt until 3x07. The show was pretty much ruined for me, but you guys didn't care about the bad writing and out of character behaviors, you only cared about your precious Clexa.
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Yes, we are such hypocrites for having enjoyed being treated as the main couple of the show, that we literally never ever had that before, ever, and then being angry when that one instance gets taken away in a shitty predictable stupid way.
Dude, I am sorry, but you can change the channel and have 10 other Jaspers, Loncolns, or Bellamys while we will have to wait another 15 years to have another Lexa. And WE should care about how You felt disregarded, when in fact you can't even show enough empathy to not come here and complain about how you didn't feel included enough, to a bunch of minority who have been hurt, and are upset?
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Except I watch the characters for who they are, not for what sexuality they are. Which means there is only one Bellamy on TV, only one Lincoln and so on. You can't possibly expect me to be cool with them ruining a character I adored just because he's a straight male and there are a lot of other straight males out there. This logic makes no sense, sorry.
I would feel for you guys, I really would, but you are blowing the whole thing way out of proportion. This whole outrage, boycotting and spreading hate on any non-Lexa related The 100 video is just ridiculous.
And yes, would be nice if you took a moment to try to realize how other people feel if you expect the same thing from them. Otherwise you demand special treatment and I don't think you want to be accused of that.
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We are blowing this thing out of proportion???
Well, let me tell you. I am actually a pretty lucky person, because I never specifically hated myself for being LGBT (I'm bi), but there are other people who have. I did, on the other hand get spat on for holding my girlfriend's hand while walking down the street. I got called names, were spread weird rumours about, and people who I though were my friends said shit behind my back, just because they knew I was attracted to women too. The two other people I knew that were queer were less fortunate, one of them got expelled, the other was forced to attend therapy to 'fix him'. I am an incredibly lucky person, because I always had a big enough ego not to let it get me down, but this is the mildest version of what it is like growing up gay/bi/etc.
It's incredibly fucking lonely, and it's incredibly scary, because you have nobody to talk to, and it's scary because it's exactly the people that should make you feel safe and tell you it's okay are the ones that you are scared will reject you.
That's why we look to fiction. All LGBT people, are fucking hungry for representation, and to see ourselves, because we do not have that in real life and that is something that no straight person can understand, because you have that from day one.
We are hurt in real life, turn to fiction to find hope, and only find that we are killed off, or used as a butt of a joke at best, and yet WE should not blow this out of proportion because it makes you uncomfortable and excludes your straight favourite character and straight point of view?
The fact that you do not need to like Bellamy for what sexuality he is and you are, is actually the of your privilege, not that somehow you are smarter, or connecting to him in a deeper level that transcends sexuality.
Nobody expect you to be cool with them ruining his character, but you should understand that them ruining a character that you like, is not the same as them killing a character that has been the beacon of hope for tens of thousands of people, who are treated like shit in real life and the media as well, and you should maybe stop and think about whether or not this is the relevant time for you to complain about 'not being included'
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He obviously still doen't understand at all.
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Hah. If anything, this has made me angry all over AGAIN. He still doesn't understand at all. I am sorry to put it frankly like this, but nobody fucking cares what his intentions were. If you are driving, and hit someone by accident, you saying you didn't mean to hit someone won't heal their injuries, especially if you have been warned 43243 times beforehand to not hit them that way. At least with Javi I can feel that he honestly feels apologetic about what happened and owned up to the mistake he made, Jason just keeps reassuring everyone that he is a 'good dude' who didn't do a shitty thing because he meant to hurt anyone, but because h thought he was so good, it's not going to hurt. Nobody gives a flying fuck.
And I am sorry but 'anyone can die on this show' is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard. I love how dark the 100 gets and got there are a bunch of characters that are not and will not ever be in the danger of dying. Bellamy is forever safe, so is Octavia and Clarke. Finn was killed because he didn't click with the audience, but apart from him, everyone that has died has either been a character that was only given a name so their death will be 'a dark twist', or simply nameless masses, which btw, is not a bad thing. If you actually watch the shows that the 100 wants to resemble, the walking dead, game of thrones, etc., they are not stupid enough to kill off main characters that the audience will be seriously pissed about. Don't get me wrong, I liked the character Monroe, or Wells, or the ginger dad in season 1, but after they died, I went on, ate my dinner. A well executed character death has meaning, moves the story forward, touches you but doesn't make you feel like shit. Ned or Rob Stark & Co. (although the latter came very close to stepping over the line) are great examples for that. The deaths before Lexa on the 100 has been great examples too. But there is a reason Clarke doesn't die. Or Bell.
But this season the show got so up in it's own ass with 'oh wow we are so dark look at all these people dying' that it doesn't even touch you anymore. Killing off the grounder army didn't make me feel sad but also understanding the reasons behind it like the culling did in season 1. It made me pissed because it didn't make sense, was poorly executed, and butchered Bellamy's character (partially because he spent the time his mental state and relationship to Gina should have been shown on a fanservice mission to save Clarke that didn't make any sense, or move the story forward an inch). The second mass death in Mount Weather didn't make me feel anything, because the story didn't take time to actually make me care about them at all. Similarly, while I understand Pike's motivation (because it got explained offscreen in an interview, which is BAD) and if I squint, I can probably force myself to understand the people of the ark following him, the show didn't give me anything to work with when I was supposed to sympathize with them, creating a situation, where I basically want half of the protagonists of the show dead, because they are not only fucking annoying, they are also murdering people without a good enough reason.
So don't you come at me with this "anyone can die on this show" bullshit, because no, they can't and they won't. The show is about the arkers, and unfortunately, they won't be killed. Bellamy, even though his character is pretty much useless at this point, and unrelatable (even though he was one of my favourites before) to the point that I groan when he comes on screen, won't be killed. Clarke or Octavia won't be killed. Pike won't be killed.
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Damian Holbrook, I've never seen anyone kiss ass so bad.
Did he tell you exactly what you should and shouldn't ask?
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"SPOILERS ARE THE WORST" ???? then why did you let us see Lexa filming for the finale in canada and the leaked sex scene....
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Wow, no apology for the MASSIVE Queerbaiting (http://wedeservedbetter.com for proof) and also no acknowledgement about how damaging the death itself was. If he could go back and change it he wouldn't? What. An. Asshole. She was accidentally killed after having sex with the woman she loved by her father figure that did not approve of the relationship. You seriously see nothing wrong with that? Man, all I want is acknowledgement of the harm he CAUSED and apology for the incredible year-long baiting that went on. The ego on this guy, unbelievable.
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The fans are screaming for you to get lost....and still here we are.
This show isn't a tragedy its a disaster.
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Clueless.
He claims to have read the response and tried to understand, but it's clear that he didn't get at all that it is one thing to kill of a character that happens to be gay. It is another thing entirely to do so immediately after she was involved in a long awaited love scene with a woman who loved her. It was clumsy at the very least, and a stupid reinforcement of a damaging trope at the worst.
I'm sure that Rosenberg thought '"Let;s do this like on old swashbuckler: The hero finally is in the arms of her beloved, only to have her tragically torn away..."
Only it doesn't work like that ; that would just be fridging. How this did work is:
Lesbian meets girl; lesbian and girl fall in love; lesbian and girl have sex; lesbian immediately dies.
To not get this is... clueless.
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Grow up she got another show and couldn't commit full time. She was amazing. Her and Clarke were the hottest couple ever, and i was as big of a fan as anyone. All in all this is TV though. Relax!
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I am super encouraged by the amount of gentle ball-cupping apparent in this interview. Good work.
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Let's try math. I've only streamed this show a few weeks ago and saw this blow up.
I put The 100 into a search engine almost every day since the episode aired just to see.
Lexa death always pulled in the top three just using google. It almost dropped, I expected it to drop off...today. Then BAM there's the showrunner. There is no bad publicity in this business. Back in the 90's Xena had an audience of 6 to 7 mil The 100 does good to have 1.5 mil...that's how much demographics have changed and now we go for a world wide reach not just US.
LGBT kept this trending. Bury Your Gays hit hard after the copycat of Joss W's Buffy (Tara) death for the LGBT community. Keep in mind the guy who wrote that episode who is playing so nice with the queer community...is doing the Xena reboot and Xena is opening lesbian this time around (NBC). It's in his best interest to play nice with the queers.
The 100 showrunner will just keep using LGBTQ community to get attention for as long as you allow it. The character is dead. Now true, it's sci-fi...I've always said...want me to fix that..."Give me a pen." It's easy to bring any character back if you're writing cannon, and he might cater to the gay audience for rating or hype. He got his renewal for season 4; however, the actor you want now shoots out of Mexico. Could be replaced by another actor...
You have to ask yourself...what do you want?
You want him to get it? Not gonna happen. I'm a white lesbian...I'm not fully going to understand the BLM movement...he's never going to get why it was wrong to queer bait (other than he's in trouble for it) or it was bad to give into a Troupe...because EVERYONE dies on his show (yeah it was the way the death was handled).
You can hit your head against the brick wall 1000x and go, consummate love scene, kill character with a stray bullet by male servant in the next scene just like in BUFFY...til you are blue in the face...say look at the 10 percent survival rate (maybe) open lesbian or bisexual regular characters have on TV shows since the 1970's...deer in headlights...
Subtext: But I kill EVERYONE. I'm not a bad guy. You're not a protected status.
What we are saying: We didn't ask for a protected status. We asked not for our ONLY representation to NOT be killed 30 seconds after having sex like a teenager in a horror movie and be caught in an inconsequential death...blah, blah, blah...I'm as tired of typing as he is of not getting it.
Impasse.
He's never going to get it.
My best playwriting buddy and I won national awards the same year at the same place. We both come from no name colleges, it's why be bonded. He's a straight black male and I'm a white ass lesbian. We can both spin plots, but when it comes to writing, our audiences couldn't be more different in TV, film or plays. Why? We love each others work. We respect each other. We will never be able to pull or write for the same audience...outside maybe a cop show or sci-fi...because those have their own rules...
In other words...our true audience base, no matter how good or bad writers we are...will never get each other even though we started out in the same place with the same awards.
Shrug.
If you want Jason R to "get" what he did "wrong" in the eyes of the LGBT community; he's never gonna get it. Ever.
See that meme: Black lives matter; All lives matter and all the white people that don't fully get it...Hillary Clinton included (who did apologize). Guess what. None of us will 100 percent get it. 99 percent (you can claim it I'll claim closer to 65 percent)...but 100 percent, no. Sure I grew up in all black neighborhoods, yada, yada, yada, At least I know I don't 100 percent get it. I will always fall short.
This guy THINKS he gets it...and everyone knows he doesn't but him, and maybe 3 GOP senators (JK GOP Senators can't read tvinsider).
Peace.
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I really think that Lexa's death will make this sunday' Wondercon panel very interesting !!! CLexa's fan are not gonna go easy with Jason and the cast. But I am worried for Eliza, Marie... and the rest of the cast that don't deserve the tomatoes
They should ask Alycia to be there with them to calm the crowd once and for all. She is so Well-spoken
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Every time this guy opens his mouth he digs himself deeper into a hole. He still doesn't get it. They spent months lying, baiting the fans and hyping Lexa/Clexa just to kill her in the cheapest way possible. The commander of 12 clans who defeated Prince Roan died of a freaking stray bullet just so he could introduce his dumb A.I story that no one cares about because it was overshadowed by the death of an amazing character who deserved better than that.
Clarke won't even have the time to mourn her death because yet again she has to focus on saving her people who are responsible for this whole mess.
Still can't believe that he waited for Alycia to speak up first about this whole thing before making a statement. She did nothing wrong and shouldn't have to clean up his mess.
He went from "she had to die because AMC only allowed them to have her until episode 7" to "she was always going to die no matter what". Liar, liar, pants on fire.
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Her death was a stupid idea and I feel like it is even harder for the fan to accept as her death was meaningless ! A loose bullet, really ?!
They could have gave her a more heroic death, on the battle field trying to save others or something... but a stupid accident for Heda !!!!!!
NOT ACCEPTABLE
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First of all, Lexa was so much more than being a lesbian girl, she was an awesome leader with bucket loads of character, feeling and panache. It seems some what unfair that the Whole Conversation has been focused on Lexa being a lesbian, when she was so much more.
Second of all, exploring The 100 universe during different time-period's would be ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE. It would be cool to see the Ancestor's of some our favourite character's including Lexa (would be cool if she came from a humble background(er)). Flash and Arrow have done a spin-off, I'm sure The 100 would do better since it's one of the best most interesting shows on Television.
And Thirdly, I live in England, we are a few episodes behind the U.S. which is greatly annoying since I can't help Googling The 100, and all of a sudden I find out that my favourite character (along with Raven) has just died, even though 'Thirteen' doesn't air down here for like another month. Which is incredibly annoying.
Also, if Jason Rothenburg is reading, Gold Lion by the YeahYeah Yeah's would be a great song for one of your episode's, I just love the music that you guys find and play in the background, has a real unique flare.
The 100 is one of the best, most finest shows ever, just love the political game of cards.
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I read this I was? what he on ? lol Jason stop we don't believe you anymore,,
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Regret! Regret!
First you'll see me on the news then never again
Regret! Regret!
I'm rolling in my grave
Regret! Regret!
Feeling like a grenade
Regret! Regret!
Maybe you're the coldest
Regret! Regret!
If you never felt it
Regret! Regret!
Maybe you're the luckiest
Regret! Regret!
If you never did it
Regret! Regret!
But did you imagine it
In a different way?
Did you imagine it
(But did you imagine it)
In a different way?
Did you ever watch your life slide out of your hands?
Regret! Regret!
You wish it never had
Regret! Regret!
But all of that's in the past
Regret! Regret!
Maybe I'm a human?
Regret! Regret!
Trying to click undo, man
Regret! Regret!
Or maybe I'm automaton
Regret! Regret!
Oh how'd it all go so wrong
Regret! Regret!
But did you imagine it
In a different way?
Did you imagine it
(But did you imagine it)
In a different way?
Did you think that everything
Everything would change?
Did you imagine it
In a different way?
Regret! Regret!
Hahahahaha
Regret! Regret!
Maybe you're the luckiest
Regret! Regret!
If you never felt it
Regret! Regret!
But did you imagine it
In a different way?
Did you imagine it
(But did you imagine it)
In a different way?
Did you think that everything
Everything would change?
Did you imagine it
In a different way?
Regret! Regret!
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I'm not trying to be offensive by any means, but this is a SHOW. Fictional, meaning its not real and I really doubt it was his idea to hurt his fans. HE loved Lexa, the whole entire cast loved Lexa, I loved Lexa, but even the actor who played her said she couldnt commit fully to The 100 when she already had been casted in Fear The Walking Dead and that it by no means is an attack against everyone. People need to chill out! This show has come so far and if you're a true fan regardless of Lexa dying, then you will continue to watch as will I and I'm sure millions of others.
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Well, I have been a committed fan of the show since season 1, but I'm not going to watch anymore and if that makes a not true fan, so be it.
To you, it's just a show, to LGBT teens, girls especially, she was a beacon of hope and a rolemodel, that is unlike anything they have seen (for adults too in some ways). I am sorry, but you cannot understand what it is like to grow up queer and what it is like growing up facing chellanges that none of your friends can relate to, and you have nobody to talk about with. Losing someone that you were invested in, because you could identify with her, and look up to her, is incredibly painful, and I don't think people who did not go through that can understand.
Furthermore, saying she had to leave, she had to die, and she had to die the way she did are three very different things. Nobody argues that Lexa had to be written off, since Alycia was not available anymore, but she didn't have to die, and she most certainly didn't have to die the way she did. Please for further explanation read lgbtfansdeservebetter.com because they compiled it a lot better than I could
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would you till be on board if they kill of your fav on the show??
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1.2 is not millions,,He said never She could have FTWD kill people off all the time,,She could have down the line she said she wanted too she loved her role.
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How about if they killed 100% of the straight main characters on the
show? They just killed off 100% of the main lesbian characters (Clarke
is bisexual). Or, ok kill off 50% of all the straight characters that
rose to the level Lexa did on the show. Gee, how many is that? The
problem is no one besides Clarke was featured as much, had as indepth a
relationship, and so on. So, then there's no one to compare her to
except Clarke and Clarke isn't straight.
So just kill off 50% of the sort of main straight characters on the show.
So he didn't mean to hurt his fans-we'll go with that though there's evidence to the contrary. The accidental hurt he caused is sort of similar to what an accidental bullet can do. The hurt still hurts just as the bullet still kills.
Further is the way it happened and the timing. It would take a totally clueless person to not understand the optics of it. And he was someone who told fans he knew about the Bury Your Gays (Dead lesbian) trope and that he wouldn't go there. Any person with a heart would know you don't get people so invested in a love story, finally let the couple have that moment, and then a minute later have the lesbian killed by her father figure. It is a real fear that gays have, that they will face at least the loss of their family's love and even violence in coming out. And this right after they have sex.
People cannot control what they feel. Hurt happens. And I could go into the fact that hurt is a larger part of the gay experience than it is the straight experience. Yes, straight people get hurt too, but as gays we can't so easily show attraction to just anyone we like and often have to hide our affection. We saw ourselves in Lexa as she fought to hide her feelings. Then her father figure tells her not only that she shouldn't love Clarke, but she shouldn't love at all.
True fans don't just watch whatever garbage is handed to them. They expect a certain level of respect from a show. That can be a respect that says they don't think we're stupid, but it's also respect in the form of appreciation for what we've brought to the table. And we in the LGBT community brought a lot to this show. We would have followed JRoth anywhere. But he used us. I won't convince you, but the truth is out there.
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Problem is, even in this interview and elsewhere there are hints that she's not necessarily finally gone, except she is, but she isn't, but she is, oh there's hope, oh there's the flame, and she'll be in another form, but never say never. For the love of God, stop it now.
Stop hyping things. It's no longer fun. And killing people for shock value. You know what would be shocking-keeping them alive. Yeah, I'm sick of this "because anyone can die" stupidity. Yeah maybe anyone can (though I'm not convinced ANYONE can), but that doesn't answer the question "should this person die?"
Imagination is a great thing-it means you get to choose how to write off a character. It doesn't mean you have to kill them no matter what story you want to tell. You can decide not to kill or to kill.
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Jesus, enough already. So gay and lesbian characters can never die is that it? If people are this upset about a FICTIONAL death, it's time to step away from the TV and get professional help. Don't watch anymore if you don't like it. I'll be continuing to enjoy the show and all the varied characters, be they gay, straight, white, black, Asian, female, male, whatever.
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that's not what people are saying and it's fucking insulting that you're saying this. so you have such a problem with the idea that LGBTQ people might gain plot armour(your interpretation), but the fact that 30% of the queer female characters introduced over the last few years have been killed?
people shouldn't need "professional help" to deal with issues that arise from living in a white supremacist, hetero/cisnormative world that sees their existence as a cheap plot device.
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You are not entitled to having everything your way or never having to deal with something that you don't like. That goes for everyone. If a TV show is such a trigger, then yes, professional help is warranted. Look, my life is far from pleasant. I live in severe chronic pain. People like me are almost always represented as drug addicts in TV and movies. Is it fair? No. Life is not fair. I save my outrage for REAL LIFE situations. Who cares what is said on Social media?! Of course the producers are going to hype the show and not tell people whats going to happen beforehand! The level of entitlement is so out of control.
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And for the record, I loved the character of Lexa. I thought her character development was outstanding, and I was gutted to see her go. But it's a TV show. People shouldn't project their own problems, issues, anger, etc onto a TV show, its writers, actors and producers.
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No, I'm not taking this shit from you. I have more dignity than that. I deserve more respect for who I am.
First off as someone who DOES struggle from mental health issues, telling people to seek "mental health" over issues like this is deeply insulting. There have been people hospitalised because of this.
However you internalise your own issues is not on me. I also live with a chronic illness nobody even takes seriously, on top of my other issues. It's not a fucking excuse to go around calling people "entitled".
People aren't entitled for wanting to be treated with dignity. The 30% statistic isn't something I pulled out of my ass. It's real. It's an issue. It's something that needs to be discussed, and people should get angry over it. The number of LGBTQ relationships in the media that are shown as having happy endings is minuscule.
When you tell people they don't get happy endings - this causes issues. People aren't "entitled" for wanting this very real artefact of their oppression to stop. The people that are entitled are the straight, white, able bodies cisgender people that see themselves in everything. But their entitlement is catered to.
Life isn't fair because of the shitty attitude people like you have. "Life" is a social construct. It can be whatever we make it. We have the resources and power to fix this problem. It's not fucking hard.
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The thing is media is a powerful tool and has a lot of influence on people. It is a form of escapism that has been used for years. Assuming you are American look into the great depression for an example.
LGBT youth use these shows as an escape from their daily struggles, to not feel alone to forget they are bullied in school, to give them hope that once they grow up it will be better. For that they only have a handful of characters and 3 of the ones they could have used after Lexa have died already. What happens when you need a little bit of hope and that gets ripped away every time in cruel ways? It'snot just a TV show to those kids it's a safe haven where they (hopefully can imagine themselves in a better place).
Nobody is saying you can't kill of a lesbian character but only that you should be careful think of the consequences and the implications it has on a vulnerable minority. I don't expect writers to tell only the story I want to see, I expect them to treat me with respect and to not exploit me. I think that isn't to much to ask.
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Enough yourself. It's that they almost ALWAYS die. Would you just sit silently if every single straight character on tv died?
It isn't that they can never die, it is that they shouldn't always die or end up in some other tragic or ridiculous way. I have been watching tv for over 40 years and you know what I've never seen? A quality story featuring a lesbian character who falls in love and lives into a happy ending. In fact, very few movies about lesbian stories are even of a decent quality and feature a happy ending.
Fiction informs society just as society informs fiction. And this also shows gays just what they're thought of even by a show they loved and were baited into heavily promoting. This was a show that touted its great treatment of many diverse groups, but has trouble showing that's true.
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Well on The100 50% of the non-straight high profile characters were killed off. How would that translate if the same were said of high profile straight characters?
Kjlhs82---
Let's see-who else rises to the prominence of Lexa as far as onscreen time, promotion of a storyline, in-depth relationship (what relationship had the same amount of time spent on it), and so on. Exactly one other person-Clarke. Except she's not straight. So they created an obviously huge non-straight storyline, gave them 1 minute airtime of happiness and then smashed our faces into the floor. I suppose this is done constantly to all straight characters on the show, right?
Who that is straight was featured anywhere near as often as Lexa?
Or just take the ones we know and kill off 50% of them-NOW. Or how about since 100% of the high profile lesbian characters was killed off (going with Clarke is bisexual), then take all of the main straight characters and kill them off NOW.
Kill Octavia, Lincoln, Indra, Bellamy, Jasper, Pike, Abby, Kane, Monty, Raven, Jaha, Titus, Murphy, Roan (he may become more important), Sinclair, and keep going-kill them all to reach 100%. Then ask, who's left? Then what do you care about on the show?
No problem-you can change the channel and watch other stories with a new set of straight characters in them. We got nothin'.
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Wish I can take this interview seriously but I can't. I mean, I understand everything said but it is just so staged and avoiding all the necessary points. It's like watching those ComicCons and others like it with the actors, where it is so obviously fake, I find it funny. You can see them cringe or get tense as boards when a subject like shipping is announced and they just say what is rehearsed and avoiding killing people's hopes.
I know that they can't spoil stuff but better not use "Always" when someone asks if there is hope but just say "no." You are not spoiling the plot, you are just giving a heads up to people and avoiding problems. We all can see where the constant avoidance and I don't know if I should say lying leads.
I would advise most, especially if they are straight, ship something else on the show and others to first read the articles of which there are many. And not only the articles but also all the comments and see most points of view with an open mind or this will not go anywhere. The bickering and pointless accusations and blaming all for the actions of a few will not stop.
If you, even after reading do not understanding what this is all about then you better not say anything because you are only making things worse and annoying others more by actually saying something stupid as a result.
This is not a coin, it does not have 2 sides but many more and until you see them all and openly dive into them, it is simply useless to waste energy and time to comment.
I think most fans pointed out that one of the problems is not that Lexa died but how she died. The buildup for 6 episodes only made it worse and that more painful, as if the audience itself got shot like 60 something seconds after the happiest moment in many who watched the show.
It was played beautifully, no denying that, the ladies did their job flawlessly.
The scene itself though was unbelievable, fake and the stupidest thing I have seen on TV - ever.
And of course I would point out why because I have been delving on the 100 many stupid and laughable moment from Season 1 episode 1.
Clarke - we all know is a healer and she pulls one hell of miracle healing moments in the show like healing Jasper from a spear wound that has been in him for a very long time with no proper equipment and somehow knowing what must be used as medicine on the ground. We have seen her perform and show her doctor skills though she seems to pull miracles only on sky people then grounders.
So here we are at 3.07 - Lexa gets shot in a place which I think most can confirm is not fatal because it is in a way the exact same place Jasper was speared.
Titus, we saw actually had surgical tools which can help with the problem.
A healer would normally jump into action or someone would rush for one if there wasn't such available. We are talking about the most important figure in ground society here.
Clarke, who is a healer though, instead of doing what a doctor should only pressed a rag at the bleeding wound, waiting for her gf to bleed out, not using the said tools to remove the bullet and burn the wound close just like Roan did with his stab wound.
Like many fans joke, Lexa getting a heart attack after her consummation with Clarke would have been thousand times more believable.
Alie2 if again you think about it was in a way forced in the show and not thought about before they had decided to kill off Lexa.
Again to factor comes the joke where people have actually made a video where, what would have happened if Lexa got eaten by the gorilla in Season 2.
How many commanders were there before Lexa -10? some thing like that? (shooting blindly here) You're telling me this chip somehow survived 97 years and was always retrieved from the Hedas body? Were all the Hedas assassinated in the tower of Polis or something?
And I'm pretty sure only the Flame keepers and the chosen night blood know about the chip, the information handed to them by Becca (First Commander).
Somehow all this time this thing didn't got destroyed and was always retrieved
for the future. Damn! These Flame keepers sure have reach and flexibility. Wish I had a butler like that too.
Plot holes so many I can actually write a book. xD
Something I also find amusing in articles or people saying how the show is progressive and treats its characters equally
I don't think J.R. and us have been watching the same show because from season 1 till now I see grounders die like flies and most arkers are still happily skipping around. Literally all the characters I pinpointed from season 1 survived (exception only being Finn who's death is understandable after what he did and the ground law - Blood must have Blood).
Clarke as amain character is untouchable, everyone else though is expendable or a pawn yet I continue to see miracles and characters that I pin pointed live through the season. Bellamy, Raven, Jasper, Monty, Abby, Kane, Octavia, Lincoln, Jaha, Murphy and probably others but they are so rarely showed in the show, their absence won't be noticeable.
Octavia surviving is easy to understand because her like Clarke, learns, adapts, evolves, knows what it takes to live another day.
Kane and even Abby in a way know it's not a good idea to push a lion by its tail.
Murphy who I view as a punching bag in the show because that's basically what happens to him all the time.
Lincoln is a walking tank and something all grounders should be like and not die from single bullets like it happens most of the time. (He wouldn't have been killed if the actor was free so no point using him)
In a way I would start believing there is no character immunity or Protective bubble from death when Bell, Raven, Jasper, Monty and others start dying like many should have way back if we are trying to be realistic.
The show itself gives many fans the feeling some characters will get away with the worst crimes committed which they are already doing and getting away. Finn should have started rampaging later to get away from his crime.
This is not about hating on characters but pointing out how many crazy moments they have actually survived and make no sense. Watch the show or look it up.
The idea and surroundings are great to build on but very badly handled, especially when it comes to who lives and who dies. The show repeatedly show viewers the strong dying silly and the weak surviving which is not how real life works.
Like I say, the first mistake the show was making is rating it teen and above. You can't seriously expect a GoT audience when you handle a story the way it is and allowing ships to go around because most arkers survive all the time. GoT audience, most know what will happen because HBO keeps it strictly to the books.
The100 book I think many know was only as an idea to start somewhere but it is not followed at all, so it is free style.
The moment you decide to engage with younger audience youhave to be careful how you do it which season 1 didn't. It was the most brutal of them all and I can only hope teens haven't watched it and just skipped to season 2.
Constantly the show in a way, maybe not deliberately ignores that the show has teens and young adults as viewers. Imagine if Pixar and Disney started ignoring they make animations for kids.
As a show runner it does suck to make the final decisions but at least make sure you make them well and not 3.07 which was the most ridiculous moment from all the 3 season.
Saying Lexa's death was to advance the plot line does not make a valid excuse because again plot holes and if someone bothers to think about it, he or she or it would know that the said chip is implanted on a living host which also means it can be removed. Should and could have been handled better, even if it lead again to death instead of 6 episodes building and leading to the slaughter house.
I am in a way 50/50 at the moment with this plot. It can lead to a big mess and it feels like a hole which I have no idea how the writers and director will get out off.
It really depends how Alie1 and 2 are handled and if 2 is destroyed, oh boy - there goes coalition, barriers of 12 clans to kill each other and sky people's protection ticket. it equals full chaos.
The 100 does not give time for characters to recover at all either from injury or from heart ache. We have 3 seasons and sky people haven't even been on Earth half a year or barely so.
Can't really insult or tell what person J.R. is because I don't know him in person but the way the show is handled is very... bad. Potential, big but every choice in a way feels to go south and not up like it should.
In a way I want to call Tell Tale writers and tell the to give the100 a hand when it comes to apocalyptic settings and believable deaths, survivors.
Wanting 100% understanding is impossible and we all know that. It is best to face the problems, in a save environment via net chat or an interview where the questions are not staged like it feels like here.
A line must be drawn and it is sad that the show gets the build up fire for over 50 years but that is what happens when you make the ugliest scene possible on TV that ruins the whole episode and the story for others.
Having younger audience means greater sacrifices and more head aches. If you can't take that then console with experts or simply give it to another. ^.^
Have a long, healthy life and lots of experiences - good and bad! (Live and Learn)
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Just gotta quote this for truth:
Clarke as amain character is untouchable, everyone else though is
expendable or a pawn yet I continue to see miracles and characters that I
pin pointed live through the season. Bellamy, Raven, Jasper, Monty,
Abby, Kane, Octavia, Lincoln, Jaha, Murphy and probably others but they
are so rarely showed in the show, their absence won't be noticeable.
Octavia surviving is easy to understand because her like Clarke, learns,
adapts, evolves, knows what it takes to live another day.
Kane and even Abby in a way know it's not a good idea to push a lion by its tail.
This is it exactly-who so far besides the lesbian that had a huge presence on the show, has died? If anyone can die, who has besides Finn and he did not have as big a role.
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This interview is such a farce, they know each other, and the interviewer's a git with an axe to grind with the fandom. Where's gamergate and their ethics in journalism when you need them, lol.
Probably too busy attacking people like us for daring to think we deserve to be represented with dignity.
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There is no understanding of not just the what of Lexa's death, but the how, and when in this story. Where is the sensitivity to an audience that the story of Clarke and Lexa was specifically targeted to? Specifically, initially teens, but more directly gay teens and in fact, gays of all ages. I so appreciate that many many straight people also loved the story of Lexa and Clarke and now understand as the LGBT community does, just what was wrong with the way it unfolded.
The what - Lexa died as most expected, because that's what good lesbians do on tv and what they have always been meant to do. People asked specifically about this and were given assurances that this trope wouldn't take Lexa. And that came at a time when if Lexa wasn't already dead, by his admissions here, she was as good as dead. The fact that most assumed she would die is in part what is wrong with the fact that she did die. And don't give me that anyone can die on this show garbage ever again. Up until Lexa's death there was no character of her status (she was a guest star in name only) or of her importance in the central storyline. She had as much airtime as Clarke and a co-prominence along with Clarke. Anyone can die, but 50% of the non-straight prominent characters are dead.
The how - by accident by her father figure, who disapproved of who she loved (not the gayness, but her love for Clarke and love in general). This resonates with those who are used to being challenged because they love and because of who they love. BY HER FATHER FIGURE. How callous can anyone be, not to understand this is the nightmare most gays live with-not that daddy necessarily will kill them, but that ostracism begins at home? Coming out, being genuinely who we are is to face the possible loss of those we love. And yes, there are some who will experience violence at the hands of a family member, some will die. This show also has to consider the worldwide audience, many risk their lives on a daily basis merely because they don't look right. So, great a stray bullet by her daddy. Love it.
The when - so love isn't weakness, huh? REALLY? You drummed that into our heads enough, so we just knew that Clarke would teach Lexa that love would make her stronger, that she wasn't weak because of it. How ironic that it was love that made her vulnerable and got her killed. Life is about more than just surviving-well only if you survive first. And if it wasn't bad enough to go against many of the tenets we came to appreciate and embrace (they too spoke volumes to a gay audience), how about not killing her 70 seconds after the most poignant expression of love many of us have ever seen. I haven't seen anything so beautifully bittersweet in decades of tv and movie watching.
So, fans waited a year, listened to promises, heard tell of this ship being the most seaworthy, were treated to the most in-depth relationship on the show (as Jason also said), watched the love fighting its way to the surface and then the payoff. They do love each other. We got to celebrate for 70 freaking seconds. It's theorized this was a record for from sex to death in the long and storied history of the dead lesbian trope. Great job, this.
Best acting ever in best love scene ever, that can never be appreciated now for itself because it just plain hurts too much. Everything about this show just rings hollow now and all the fan-made videos, all the love poured into the show and the story in all the creative pursuits, can never be appreciated as once they were.
The love scene that was loudly cheered by those who had waited for it, was instantly followed by despair, disgust, and disbelief. It can't be enjoyed now because we know what happens next.
This is Sci Fi and there were so many ways this could have played out differently. It's called imagination. Apologize.
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I was surprised to hear his remorse, but what's done is done. It's hard to go back and apologize for something that was so incredibly mishandled. I feel like he really failed her as a character (or his show runner is, I'm not sure). It makes me not want to invest in any show with a female couple as the lead when I pretty much know what's going to happen (unless it's a show like the Fosters that I've come to trust). I'm really excited
for Sunday now and happy I get to be there. I'm just hoping that "Lexa
as an AI" doesn't end up being a dude. I know Clarke is Bisexual, but
that would be devastating. I would probably stop watching entirely at
that point. Even now while I love the show, it's going to be hard to continue to watch, and they'll really have to win my trust again.
It's just sad that the second you think something is different, they go
down the same tired path like dozens of shows before them. It's just so
incredibly disappointing.
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Jason you don't understand... "But it wouldn’t have changed the story you’re telling?
No, absolutely not. We would have told the same story" Really Jason? You don't undestand
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honestly this is one of the best interviews jroth has given...he usually never shows an ounce of remorse. i hope he does have more humility going forward. i also hope the fan arent "hostile" at wondercon bc i dont think the cast deserves that
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I am still so mad and sad at the same time. This interview didn't help me overcome this dramatical event because there was NO real explanation, no real understanding from Jason. I really can't wait for WonderCon to see the CLEXA fans destroy him !!!!!
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I don't think it was the fact that she died that upset the fans. It was how she died, it was right after a sex scene, by a father figure. The message that sends is the same message we hear all the time for queer women on television, and the same scenes over and over again. Two women, happy together, having finally overcome the many challenges of their relationship, smiling, happy, hopeful of the unfolding relationship before them. Then they are punished for this relationship, by their father figure, by a misogynist with a gun, by some deus ex hetero that demands punishment for the sin of loving someone. Their death means nothing, they didn't die the way they lived, they died for one reason: because of who they loved. It's a distinct message that queer women are tired of hearing. It's like it's 2001 all over again. It was so unoriginal, in a world where anything can and does happen, for someone to die, of all things, because of who they loved. Especially after you spouted over and over again "who they love doesn't matter!" and baited us. In the end, you were unoriginal and that was far worse than killing her.
We understand that you felt you had to kill her, sure. If she'd died defending the Sky People, or defending her people from the Sky People, or in a challenge, by a spear on the battlefield or stabbed through the lung as she fought, but to die in her lover's bedroom because of who she loved? We've seen that a million times. And we're so tired of it. She cared for her people as much as she cared for Clarke, more even, and she wasn't even given the chance to die for them.
We're just so tired of being baited with representation then having that character die for no reason other than the person they love. It sends a message that queer women can't be happy, so it's no surprise queer women are sick of it.
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Too little too late and he is still evading the issue. Also, I've been upset with him killing Wells for quite awhile and the way POC's are treated on the show.
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Okay I completely lost my first comment here in this site, so I'm writing again. My suggestion to my fellow LGBTQ family is to QUIT WATCHING THE 100, if watching the show will feel you're betrayed or hurt then don't watch it. Lexa is dead, she's not coming back on the show except for that city of light scenes with Clarke and that's it. ADC is not coming back anymore so let's all move on. We already said our piece, they heard us and this Jason still doesnt get, it so be it. He'll never apologize to the community and will alwayis stand by in what he believes. We can't do anything anymore, there's no more Lexa and the damage has been done. I'm done with this show, that's why I'm not watching it anymore coz i felt betrayed by the baiting. So if u feel the same way, then quit watching the show or if you'rr an ADC fan then watch FTWD. This should also serve as a lesson to the LGBTQ community, don't trust any showrunner or tv show. let's all move on and quit watching the 100
PS. I already anticipated the Bellarke future romantic relationship so I'm not dealing with it. Like what the writers said, Clarke's bisexuality is just a phase and Lexa is not her soulmate -so read between the lines.
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Oh don't worry, most of us aren't watching this crap anymore, as was clearly shown by the huge -17% drop in the demo ratings for episode 308.
BUT I'm not going to stop calling him out....ever. If he thinks we'll just get tired and shut up eventually, he clearly doesn't know this community very well!
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Every show dropped that week. While fans leaving because of Lexa's death certainly played a part, it wasn't even close to the only reason for the drop. I'm also not sure why you and others believe that Jason thinks that way, as he clearly said that he wants to have more conversations about it in the future.
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OMG!He still doesn't get it!And i quit on The100 ,Lexa,Alycia,FTWD and all that drama because i saw what Alycia said on the Panel,now am reading him. And they both sound the same. Absurd!He doesn't get WHY his fandom turned against him and ADC 'plays' stupid and openly admitted she left for FTWD and diplomatically defends his "creative" choice.Why you Both offend your fans by thinking they are stupid?
Game of Thrones COME BAAACKKK!!!!!
Theres a reason GOT is NO1 and ya all bitching about fame and queer-baiting to push your ratings up.
ADC was noone and Nothing be4 Lexa and started acting on 8, but now she plays "famous" and "stupid" with a set up interview and she didnt knew "nothing ' about Trevor Project?Or there is a social storm calling for Jason to be fired?
And Jason JUST "didnt " invite fans on season finale and queer baited for 2years?
Ya all just lame and stooped Low, baby Low ! Just for $ and fame your able to hurt your fans , to hurt people .That says a lot a bout you not about the people that feel betrayed !
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Love how you're praising GoT when it literally killed a child just for shock value and raped Sansa Stark for... I'm sorry, what exactly was the reason for her rape? None of these were in the books, so you can't even blame it on that. And these are only from the final season. GoT is the least progressive show on air!
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now your changing the topic of the conversation. and yes there was a lot of drama in GOT but you need to understand one thing. The "kingdoms" in GOT and kings are based on real characters (as much as possible) by the author itself.And in middle ages women did not have the same treatment as today.what u see is very realistic. i never said ppl have to like it but it touches the reality of the middle age as much as possible
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So he stands by his upsetting storyline that perpetuates a homophobic trope? I love how he says he understands, but nowhere within the words of this very lengthy article is an apology to the viewers that were impacted by the queerbaiting.
Saying he wishes he could go back and not queerbait the vulnerable audience he targeted online is not the same as acknowledging them and truly apologizing. You can't turn back time. Why not deal with the reality of the situation in front of you?
This whole discourse focusing on the universe of the show as separate from the real world is so ignorant. The true beauty of science fiction is to impact the real world by re-imagining a better one while pointing out the flaws of our existing one and to shape it for the better through media, not to pretend a real world does not exist entirely.
Oh boy. Death comes for everyone, he says. Inclusive, he says. Does anyone find it funny that the villains of this season, the people viewers are rooting to see dead/punished because of the horrible things they're doing are all people of color? (Bellamy, Pike, Hannah, etc. Plus wonderful Monty is being dragged into that mess now, too.)
Rothenberg has a lot of covert racism in his story what with Jaha, a black man, having the image of a drug peddler, and Lincoln, another black man, having the image of a past drug addict, as well as Raven, a woman of color, now being one of the first to easily swallow that drug-like city of light chip. Let's not forget Raven, woman of color, has literally suffered the most physical brutality on this show and he even slut-shamed Raven on twitter by saying she needs to find better coping mechanisms than sex when he's the one who wrote her having sex to cope... come on, Jason Rothenberg, come on.
And all our saviors are white looking characters? Kane? Octavia? Clarke? I love them, I do, but this writing is awful in regards to all the other amazing characters.
Season 2, I could overlook it as inclusive writing, but season 3 has revealed just how gross the storytelling is for its minority characters and how toxic a message it sends out into the world.
At some point, it's time to call bullshit. This world is not revolutionary. It's full of flaws as most popular media is and I am sick and tired of white/straight/ignorant people hailing it as progressive in terms of its representation. Just because they include minority characters does not mean they treat them right.
Go look up some meta-analyses/articles about the treatment of race and sexual orientation on this show. It is downright disturbing.
That's why this matters. Because representation on television leaks into peoples' minds, shapes what they think of the world, and colors how they see LGBTQ+ people and people or color in real life.
You want real world as well - Jason Rothenberg bullied actor Ricky Whittle, was racist towards the actor who plays Miller, and cut Ricky Whittles screentime down by making his storyline about Lincoln being in prison. When Jason said above that death is coming for more characters soon, he's talking about Lincoln, fan favorite character of color. Check out Ricky Whittle's mother's twitter as she called Jason out for being a bully. Ricky had to quit the show and said he was sad about it because he loved Lincoln. Jason Rothenberg is full of shit. He needs to go. I feel sorry for his cast. He censors them, tells them not to interact with fans so he can get all the followers when he shares behind-the-scenes goodies and when he interacts with them.
This guy is a mess. And so is Season three of The 100.
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Amazing. He still doesn't get it. Not even a little bit. And no damn way does he not remember telling Eliza and Alycia the plan. He "doesn't remember" because they'd have called bullshit because they have more than two braincells. And we know exactly what you're giving away because you made damn sure to get those pictures from the finale splashed all over the internet.
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And once again it was all Lexa based...
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The article is literally about lexa and her death, what did you expect??????
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Yeah since Ricky already is slated to be on another show and Adina is on Underground on WGN America (the show got record shattering ratings for that network) their characters won't be long for this world.
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"It isn't about Lexa's death it is about how she died.
She was a Commander of 13 clans and she died by stray bullet not even protecting Clark..."
That's how most people in real life die. Unceremoniously. This show can be very real at times.
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Yeah this show is just sooo real in its portrayal of real life. Jasper is speared all the way through the middle of his chest with a huge spear then dragged through a forest and posted up as bait. Then found by the 100 folks and dragged back through said forest to be saved with some moss. Yep pretty real.
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matar o melhor personagem, o mais extraordinário, autêntico, o personagem que tornava interessante e que elevava o nível desse seriado café com leite... Putz, cara, eu não consigo pensar em uma ideia pior do que essa, sinceramente..