‘The Handmaid’s Tale’: Madeline Brewer Talks Commander Bell, Jezebel’s & Aunt Lydia Ahead of Final Episodes
Spoiler Alert
[Warning: The following contains MAJOR spoilers for The Handmaid’s Tale Season 6 Episode 7, “Shattered.” It also contains discussion of physical abuse and gun violence.]
The Handmaid’s Tale delivered one of its most gruesome scenes of the entire series in the May 6 episode. The Eyes committed a mass murder of the women in Jezebel’s by order of High Commander Wharton (Josh Charles). The only one spared was Janine (Madeline Brewer), who was saved by Commander Bell (Timothy Simons). The murder was the result of Nick (Max Minghella) revealing Mayday’s plot to attack the commanders at the brothel to Wharton, his father-in-law.
Nick did it to save himself, which hardly absolved him of guilt even if he did tell Wharton that the Jezebel’s women were not involved in the plotting (this was true; Janine was the only one who knew Mayday was coming and even then she didn’t know much). He “didn’t think” Wharton would hurt the women. It’s astoundingly obtuse and ignorant to think that a High Commander of Gilead wouldn’t punish “fallen” women to such a degree.
June (Elisabeth Moss) returned to Mayday in horror and shame after leaving Nick for what’s hopefully the last time. When tearfully confessing to Luke (O-T Fagbenle) that Nick knew the plan because of her and now she “didn’t know what to do” in the wake of the betrayal and its devastating fallout, Luke bit back, “Don’t be in love with a f***ing nazi.” That would be a less accurate label for Nick had he not tried to defend his actions in his last conversation with June. “You’re just like them,” she said after Nick said he was just trying to stay alive. “And you love me for it,” he replied.
Disney / Steve Wilkie
June wasn’t the only one changed forever by what happened at Jezebel’s. Aunt Lydia (Ann Dowd) saw the bloody aftermath in the Jezebel’s showers and wept. This was a turning point for Lydia, whose prayers were answered when she learned that Janine was spared, but the nightmare continued when she visited Commander Bell’s home to see Janine a Handmaid once more. Janine’s face was badly bruised and bloodied, the result of physical abuse from Bell in his home. Janine is in more danger than she ever was before as we head into the last three episodes of The Handmaid’s Tale.
Here, Madeline Brewer dissects the difficult episode and Janine’s relationships with Aunt Lydia and with Commander Bell, as well as previews what’s to come in the final episodes of The Handmaid’s Tale.
Prior to this episode, Janine’s mental health seems to have improved a bit this season. Is this because she’s no longer a Handmaid? Is Jezebel’s almost a better scenario, in a twisted way?
Madeline Brewer: Yeah, I think in a lot of ways Jezebel’s is the most freedom that she’s ever experienced while still within the walls of Gilead. She’s found a purpose that she’s more comfortable with at Jezebel’s. She’s a bit of the mother hen in a way, and that’s really all Janine has ever wanted, is to have a purpose in this place. She tried that at the Red Center, but knowing that she was preparing these girls for service as Handmaids, the cognitive dissonance was too great for her. It was too much to bear.
What else has strengthened her resolve between Seasons 5 and 6?
Towards the end of Season 5, she’s really just had enough of the masquerading and this charade of having to put up with someone like Naomi [Ever Carradine], who was, in Janine’s eyes, a truly horrible human being. Janine lets it get the better of her and says, “I f**king hate you,” to Naomi and faces repercussions for that. When we find her in Season 6, she’s just grateful to have a purpose. It was truly soul-sucking for her to put up with Naomi and to prepare all these women to be Handmaids.
Is there a world where Janine could leave Gilead without her daughter, Charlotte? If she had to, could she do what June did and leave Hannah behind to try and save later?
In some ways, I do think so because although it’s not the life that Janine would ever want for Charlotte, I do think that as long as she’s safe and she’s loved, at the end of the day, that’s what matters most to Janine. If getting Charlotte out would in any way risk Charlotte’s life, her safety, or her comfort, I don’t think Janine would ever risk that.
Is she at all comforted that as long as she’s in Gilead, she’s physically close to her daughter?
I think there’s some comfort there, but as we know, I think it’s in Episode 4, Janine has no delusions that just because Charlotte is with a high-ranking commander [Bradley Whitford‘s Commander Lawrence] that she’s necessarily safe. Being in Jezebel’s, she’s learned a lot about what these commanders think of each other and what they’re planning, and she knows that things can turn on a dime. So I think that all Janine really cares about is ensuring Charlotte’s safety, or at the very least ensuring that those who are taking care of her are making sure she stays and remains safe.
Disney / Steve Wilkie
What keeps Janine holding on to hope? Do you think she had lost it before June and Moira [Samira Wiley] showed up at Jezebel’s?
I don’t think that she had lost hope necessarily, but I do think that it’s taken a different shape for her. Janine is a survivor. She’s been a survivor since before Gilead and has been throughout her time there. She’s not the one who’s going to organize the rebellion. She’s obviously ready to take up arms, for lack of a better word, when that time comes, but that’s not Janine’s place in the revolution. Janine’s place has been to try and keep everyone safe, to keep them from acting out too much. She does a great deal of what June did for her. June kept Janine safe. She kept her from acting on her more intense impulses and getting herself sent to the colonies or worse. That’s what Janine was doing for these women at Jezebel’s. I don’t think that she’s the mastermind behind any rebellion, but she keeps them hopeful.
What was Janine’s opinion of Aunt Lydia when she came to Jezebel’s earlier this season?
It’s tough because I think that there’s a great deal of love between them. I would think that Ann would tell you that as well. It’s an absurdly complicated dynamic, but what Janine says is true. “Every time you try to help me, things get worse.” They either get worse for me in the physical place where I am, or I have to prepare girls to be in service. Even though I don’t have to go into service, I have to prepare other young women to do this. Even though at times Lydia has had the best of intentions, she’s really, really hurt Janine, and I think Janine’s also tired of being taken care of. She’s reached a point now where she’s like, I’m good. I am as good as I’m going to get without being on the wall, so just leave me be. Let me be here. Stop trying to make things better. Stop trying to change the system while still working with the system. Unless you’re working to change the system, just leave me alone.
Watching this season, I thought to myself multiple times that these people who are obsessed with Janine, a.k.a. Aunt Lydia and Commander Bell, and make her their “special girl,” need to leave her the hell alone.
I know, and both of them have very different reasons [for their obsessions with Janine]. Bell is just like a teenage boy. He reminds me a little bit of Jamie in [Netflix‘s] Adolescence. He is trying to puff himself up as a big man, which is kind of ironic because Tim Simons is like 6’5″. But that aside, he’s a very, very small person, and he sees Janine’s vulnerability and wants to take advantage of it or to exploit it or use it to make himself feel strong.
Disney / Steve Wilkie
But as we know within this system in Gilead, men like him can have a lot of power, even if they’re seen in the eyes of other commanders as puny. What danger does Commander Bell continue to pose to Janine in the last episodes of the series?
He is an obstacle that has to be overcome.
How was it working with Timothy Simons, who is a newcomer in this final season?
I love Tim. He was so excited to come in and explore this character. We had lots of conversations about what the boundaries are of where is he being sadistic and where is he being kind of a little boy who wants to be wanted. It was really fun to discuss because there’s also certain scenes where I am pissed at him and irritated by him, and then other scenes where I’m kind of laughing with him and trying to balance the scales of, when am I using my sexuality and my charm to keep him in line and keep him in a place where I want him? And playing with that while also exploring each character individually. It was so much fun. I have so much respect for Tim as an actor and just as a person. It was a lot of fun.
The shooting scene in the Jezebel’s bathroom is one of the most difficult scenes to watch in the entire series. How did production handle filming such a terrifying scene sensitively? What preparations went into that?
Oh gosh. Well, I mean, honestly, not much. It is strange to say that, oh, I didn’t really prepare for the scene, but it’s really letting Janine live through me, as silly as that sounds. I have been with her for so long, and my only goal was to be their protector, because that is who Janine would be, in my opinion. To the very last and final moments, she would try to protect them. And as we see, I think in some ways, Janine would’ve liked to have gone with them because just the real torture of watching her friends be murdered in front of her, and there’s nothing she can do despite how much she loves them and has tried to protect them and keep them safe and keep them well, it’s just a moment of utter grief and helplessness.
And part of the horror, too, is not just witnessing it, but having to live with that memory afterwards. How does Janine cope with that?
What keeps her going a bit when she gets taken to Bell’s house is just the fact that she knows June is out there somewhere. June and Moira are out there somewhere trying to make things better. And I think that Janine also recognizes that she’s better for the cause if she’s alive rather than dead.
Disney / Steve Wilkie
As we approach the final episodes of the series, how involved is Janine in this crisis of faith that we see brewing within Aunt Lydia? [Dowd will reprise her role as a main character in The Testaments spinoff, which is currently filming in Canada.]
The way you get Lydia to understand what she’s done is that she knows that she in some way owes Janine. I don’t know that anybody could pack that same punch for Lydia as much as Janine can. Because June hasn’t been back in Gilead with Lydia in a while, but Janine has been here with her and living through Esther [Mckenna Grace] and showing Lydia that her special girls are in Jezebel’s. Janine’s tried several times to get Lydia to see the light of it, especially during this season. And so the person who has to put that nail in the coffin for Lydia has to be Janine.
The Handmaid’s Tale, Tuesdays, Hulu
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